Please or to access all these features

Conflict in the Middle East

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Deeper understanding of why Israel was created

640 replies

NameChangedUnderstandingGained · 26/10/2025 16:40

I have recently visited Poland. Did a lot of reading. Visited a lot of historic sites and museums.

Oh My Gosh - I now REALLY understand why the British Mandate in Palestine created Israel. Even after the war ended Jews were still ostracised, blamed, killed, turned out of lands, unwelcome in many, many nations in Europe. The number of Jews were decimated, many survivors had to use assumed fake identification to survive, some fled to America, to Australia and Europe still wasn't safe or friendly for them hence Israel. One little bit of land where Jewish people originated, where the religion was first founded thousands of years before. A 2 state solution would have been good if both agreed and both wanted to live in peace and prosper. Israel never felt safe so built up a massive defence, built up a country and industry and wanted to prosper.

There is much harm that has been done to many peoples in history. However, the holocaust was unique. I have visited places where Jews no longer exist, they have all gone, millions died, the liquidation of Jews throughout lands, nothing Israel has done in a war is the same as this. The gas chambers, the extermination camps, the work until to drop then we kill you camps. It really is on another scale.

I am now totally pro keeping a land for Jewish people. I don't agree with settler violence but I do agree and understand why Israel needs to defend itself from terrorists who wish to wipe Jewish people from the earth just like the Nazi did.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
lifeinthemidlands · 03/09/2026 18:10

SharonEllis · 03/09/2026 17:57

If you view as a border dispute rooted in colonialism then you have completely missed the point, understood only part of the context, and will never understand the importance if the nation of Israel to the Jewish people.

Of course it is not the whole point - but the colonial aspect is important - the land belonged to neither the Jewish people or the British Government. And the process was based on an assumption that the British Government had the right to control and give away land at will.

SharonEllis · 03/09/2026 17:57

lifeinthemidlands · 03/09/2026 17:48

Excellent and balanced post by @Newbutoldfather . I think it's important to also mention that the whole process around founding the Israeli nation was a complete diplomatic fiasco and grounded in colonialism - Britain had initially said it would give Palestine self-determination when they "liberated" it from the Ottoman empire, but instead chose to use it for their foreign policy goals. If you view the conflict essentially as a border dispute rooted in colonialism you could say there are a lot more current conflicts where current territorial legitimacy is questioned many years after original borders were drawn.

If you view as a border dispute rooted in colonialism then you have completely missed the point, understood only part of the context, and will never understand the importance if the nation of Israel to the Jewish people.

lifeinthemidlands · 03/09/2026 17:48

Excellent and balanced post by @Newbutoldfather . I think it's important to also mention that the whole process around founding the Israeli nation was a complete diplomatic fiasco and grounded in colonialism - Britain had initially said it would give Palestine self-determination when they "liberated" it from the Ottoman empire, but instead chose to use it for their foreign policy goals. If you view the conflict essentially as a border dispute rooted in colonialism you could say there are a lot more current conflicts where current territorial legitimacy is questioned many years after original borders were drawn.

Newbutoldfather · 03/09/2026 17:10

@OpenScroller ,

I grew up with my parents telling me exactly the narrative that you wrote on the previous page, but I think that if is really necessary to understand the other side of the story.

I don’t even think it would be good for Israel long term if they just drove the Palestinians away. It would be a stain on Israel and, by extension, on the history of Judaism.

‘Anyway, going back to the premise of the OP. Anybody with a brain, who is not an inbred Jew hater, can clearly see why Israel was and continues to be necessary as a Jewish majority State.

Let's be honest, the question of the legitimacy of any other State already existing for
70 years would never be in question. Only the world's only teeny tiny Jewish State.
There would have been hatred and war wherever they went, as there has been through history. The recreation of a Jewish State on their ancestral lands where there was already an ancient longstanding Jewish presence, and their most Holy sites were located, was common sense.’

I definitely agree with questioning the legitimacy of the state js antisemitic.

However, it was always a messy compromise. There were 750,000 people living there forced off their land. A state between Tanzania and Kenya was considered in the 1920s, so Israel wasn’t always obvious. And Israel is very holy to all three Abrahamic religions. Look at Temple Mount/site of the Golden Dome.

‘The Arabs did not have any sovereignty over the sparsely populated, mostly barren land, and were given the vast majority of it (78%) as Jordan. Getting another 10% was a bonus and lets remember, those Arabs who did not flee in the hope that the fledgling Jewish State would be wiped out in a bloody genocide by 5 established Arab armies, just a few years after the Holocaust, became Israeli citizens and by most accounts are happier to live in Israel than in the surrounding Arab States.
Israel also took in almost a million Jews who had been expelled and persecuted throughout the ME with no UN agency set up to help and become a billion $ industry! Also thousands of Ethiopian Jews who were rescued from persecution in daring missions.’

This is a bit like being forced out of London and told that the Uk is being partitioned and you have from the Midlands upwards and should be grateful! Until recently, I would have agreed about the Arabs being happy in Israel proper. But both the 2018 law and lots of local discrimination (luxury housing developments where only Jews need apply for instance) have kind of changed this.

‘It's also pure delusion to deny the Palestinian identity was created purely to be a thorn in Israel's side and birthed the ideology that created the monsters of the PLO, Hamas and the multiple other Palestinian terrorist factions.’

I don’t know about that. I am not a historical expert. However if your family have farmed olive groves in the West Bank for many generations and you have title deeds, that is both legally and morally your land, and you should be able to live in peace on it and not be harassed by aggressive religious zealots.

‘The fact there are so many, and so many terrorist attacks targeting Jews which reached as far as Europe and Africa, among such a small population should give anybody pause for thought.
Anyone who denies that could perhaps explain why the PLO didn't try to 'liberate' Palestine while the WB & Gaza were illegally occupied by Jordan and Egypt.
The Western supporters of 'Free Palestine' don't seem to understand or care that they also have blood on their hands by supporting and condoning the use of 'Palestinians' as pawns and human sacrifices, for the Arab Muslim obsession of destroying Israel with generations of children indoctrinated from toddlers to aspire to die as a martyr while slaughtering Jews, to love death more than they love life.
It is the most evil, deranged collusion in human history after he Holocaust IMO and would never have gained ground if it wasn't against Jews.’

Again some truth to all the above. But a lot of Israeli education is also pretty indoctrinating, especially in the religious communities. It just encourages a cycle of hatred.

‘What's also completely ignored about Israel is how amazingly successful it became in such a short space of time, with no natural resources to rely on in contrast to high GDP Arab States in the region. It has relied almost completely on brain power and is literally a marvel of innovation and creativity. We should be lauding it and learning from it, especially it's agri and water tech’

Again true, up to a point. But, no young country has had anywhere near the contributions from outside that Israel has. The U.S has paid handsomely for her projection of power in the Middle East.

I spent some time on a Kibbutz as a teenager and the community spirit was impressive. Israel was based on European liberal Jewry, and thrived on that educated tolerant culture. The new settlers are nothing like that. They are brash, ill educated and racist, and they have 4-6 kids per couple (rest of Israel is less than replacement). It is a dangerous time for Israel.

Ponderingwindow · 03/09/2026 16:42

We are approaching what I think of as the statute of limitations on land and political disputes, 100 years. I know it isn’t international law, but I think it should be. Essentially the lifetime of the people who would have been involved in the actual event. After that borders are set, property is owned, and grudges must be buried. The aftermath is real, but the focus must be on dealing with the problems people face in their daily lives as they exist today, not on rehashing old arguments.

Do I think the way Israel was created was correct? No. However it is there now and that shouldn’t change.

tznrknd · 03/09/2026 16:32

Cheese55 · 03/09/2026 15:50

What is the basis of the Jew hatred that has been going on historically? Before WW2 , why did people hate Jews ?

Why not ask @Gymimposter1977, they seem to be an expert at it.

Cheese55 · 03/09/2026 15:50

What is the basis of the Jew hatred that has been going on historically? Before WW2 , why did people hate Jews ?

Twiglets1 · 03/09/2026 15:04

It is baffling @snakebitepassionplay why antisemitic posters are allowed to carry on posting.

MN shouldn't tolerate any blatant racism on the site, it is against their own site rules.

dairydebris · 03/09/2026 14:21

snakebitepassionplay · 03/09/2026 14:08

@mnhq @FayeMumsnet why was my post deleted when @Gymimposter1977 is allowed to spew racism and laugh at terror victims? what a cesspit mumsnet has become over the past few years.

I wondered same.

Moderation of these threads must be an absolute nightmare but some of the decisions made are baffling.

keepeofthesevenkeys · 03/09/2026 14:14

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Wanting to sell people into slavery ia a new low even for mumsnet.

snakebitepassionplay · 03/09/2026 14:08

@mnhq @FayeMumsnet why was my post deleted when @Gymimposter1977 is allowed to spew racism and laugh at terror victims? what a cesspit mumsnet has become over the past few years.

Newbutoldfather · 03/09/2026 14:00

@Gymimposter1977 ,

‘You can't judge individuals or groups based on what they might do, that's speculation, Israel are by countless multiples, the most violent entity in the middle East, the nicest thing one could say about Israel is they simply cannot behave themselves, what dreadful neighbours to have’

I definitely can and will judge them by what they say! I think 7/10 also proves incontrovertibly that they are barbarous killers of the worst order. And how about how they ‘looked after’ the hostages?

Do you suggest I risk an experiment and get killed in the process?

I am not someone to sanctify Israel and I feel it is the diaspora’s responsibility to call Israel out for their current behaviour.

But, in the global depravity league, Hamas are right up there vying for the number one spot. Israel aren’t even in the top 10.

DeterminedRat · 03/09/2026 13:54

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Israel killed more Palestinian children in a single day in 0ct 2023 than Palestinians(not just Hamas) have killed Israeli children since the turn of the century. Since the turn of the century Palestinians have killed 151 Israeli children, 43 of them in 2023. Israel killed more than 200 in one day of 2023.

A really shocking statistic, I think people forget the astonishing rate at which Israel were killing children at the start of the conflict.

Gymimposter1977 · 03/09/2026 13:50

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

OpenScroller · 03/09/2026 13:48

Anyway, going back to the premise of the OP. Anybody with a brain, who is not an inbred Jew hater, can clearly see why Israel was and continues to be necessary as a Jewish majority State.

Let's be honest, the question of the legitimacy of any other State already existing for 70 years would never be in question. Only the world's only teeny tiny Jewish State.

There would have been hatred and war wherever they went, as there has been through history. The recreation of a Jewish State on their ancestral lands where there was already an ancient longstanding Jewish presence, and their most Holy sites were located, was common sense.

The Arabs did not have any sovereignty over the sparsely populated, mostly barren land, and were given the vast majority of it (78%) as Jordan. Getting another 10% was a bonus and lets remember, those Arabs who did not flee in the hope that the fledgling Jewish State would be wiped out in a bloody genocide by 5 established Arab armies, just a few years after the Holocaust, became Israeli citizens and by most accounts are happier to live in Israel than in the surrounding Arab States.

Israel also took in almost a million Jews who had been expelled and persecuted throughout the ME with no UN agency set up to help and become a billion $ industry! Also thousands of Ethiopian Jews who were rescued from persecution in daring missions.

It's also pure delusion to deny the Palestinian identity was created purely to be a thorn in Israel's side and birthed the ideology that created the monsters of the PLO, Hamas and the multiple other Palestinian terrorist factions. The fact there are so many, and so many terrorist attacks targeting Jews which reached as far as Europe and Africa, among such a small population should give anybody pause for thought.

Anyone who denies that could perhaps explain why the PLO didn't try to 'liberate' Palestine while the WB & Gaza were illegally occupied by Jordan and Egypt.

The Western supporters of 'Free Palestine' don't seem to understand or care that they also have blood on their hands by supporting and condoning the use of 'Palestinians' as pawns and human sacrifices, for the Arab Muslim obsession of destroying Israel with generations of children indoctrinated from toddlers to aspire to die as a martyr while slaughtering Jews, to love death more than they love life.

It is the most evil, deranged collusion in human history after he Holocaust IMO and would never have gained ground if it wasn't against Jews.

What's also completely ignored about Israel is how amazingly successful it became in such a short space of time, with no natural resources to rely on in contrast to high GDP Arab States in the region. It has relied almost completely on brain power and is literally a marvel of innovation and creativity. We should be lauding it and learning from it, especially it's agri and water tech.

Newbutoldfather · 03/09/2026 13:41

@Gymimposter1977 ,

I am not going to defend Israel’s actions, as I don’t approve of them and think that should be sanctioned for them.

They have become expansionist and some of them are racist.

But your claim about Israel being more depraved than Hamas is ridiculous. Luckily Israel is more powerful than Hamas as, if they had the power, there wouldn’t be a single Israeli child alive. And, if they had enough power, there wouldn’t be a single Jewish child alive.

Sinwar 2018:

‘The Hamas leader in the Gaza Strip on Thursday dismissed US and Israeli demands that it lay down its arms and recognize the Jewish state, saying the terror organization is instead debating “when to wipe out Israel.”’

From article 7 of the Hamas Charter:

‘The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said: ‘The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.’’

As a Jew, I think I would be wary of Hamas based on the above!

Gymimposter1977 · 03/09/2026 13:39

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

dairydebris · 03/09/2026 13:31

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

People like you are the exact reason Israel exists.

Bit ironic really.

Gymimposter1977 · 03/09/2026 13:24

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Gymimposter1977 · 03/09/2026 13:20

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

snakebitepassionplay · 03/09/2026 13:07

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Gymimposter1977 · 03/09/2026 13:04

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

OpenScroller · 03/09/2026 12:59

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

You're supposedly awake but sucking up Islamic extremist/leftist terrorist propaganda though?

That's even worse.

snakebitepassionplay · 03/09/2026 12:58

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.