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Conflict in the Middle East

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Original poster

Deeper understanding of why Israel was created

640 replies

NameChangedUnderstandingGained · 26/10/2025 16:40

I have recently visited Poland. Did a lot of reading. Visited a lot of historic sites and museums.

Oh My Gosh - I now REALLY understand why the British Mandate in Palestine created Israel. Even after the war ended Jews were still ostracised, blamed, killed, turned out of lands, unwelcome in many, many nations in Europe. The number of Jews were decimated, many survivors had to use assumed fake identification to survive, some fled to America, to Australia and Europe still wasn't safe or friendly for them hence Israel. One little bit of land where Jewish people originated, where the religion was first founded thousands of years before. A 2 state solution would have been good if both agreed and both wanted to live in peace and prosper. Israel never felt safe so built up a massive defence, built up a country and industry and wanted to prosper.

There is much harm that has been done to many peoples in history. However, the holocaust was unique. I have visited places where Jews no longer exist, they have all gone, millions died, the liquidation of Jews throughout lands, nothing Israel has done in a war is the same as this. The gas chambers, the extermination camps, the work until to drop then we kill you camps. It really is on another scale.

I am now totally pro keeping a land for Jewish people. I don't agree with settler violence but I do agree and understand why Israel needs to defend itself from terrorists who wish to wipe Jewish people from the earth just like the Nazi did.

OP posts:
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GentleSheep · 27/10/2025 10:26

thingsarelookingupfornigel · 26/10/2025 21:08

Good lord. Honestly? I have no doubt all religious texts can fit anybodies needs when as.

The old Testament is Jewish history. Are you saying their history is just made up to suit circumstances? Have you even read any of it? It's an amazing detailed history of how Israel came into being and the historical events that happened over thousands of years.

Original poster
NameChangedUnderstandingGained · 27/10/2025 09:07

To BluntPlumHam, you said

"Oh I’m so sorry the world won’t let you get away with murdering innocent people en masse … throw all the tantrums in the world but the worst genocide in modern history has been committed/on going in Palestine and if after visiting Auchswitz you can’t see that then you’re very much part of the problem and reason why atrocities are allowed to go on."

This comment was directed to me and to another since covers a reply to another poster and also comments directly to me.

Perhaps you should actually go look at facts rather than ranting at people on here? Neither of us has been murdering people 'en masse'. Neither of us has had a tantrum (perhaps look to yourself for that!), neither of us are part of the problem that has led to this latest conflict following a massive terrorist attack, we are also not the problem that there are wars and too many deaths of innocents around the world. Try cutting the emotional language and use perspective, historical fact, calm down and then try again. Do you actually believe that shouting and screaming at people on here helps at all?

I won't bother to reply to someone who has no self control over their rantings. People don't tend to listen to this type of 'tantrum' to use your own language.

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HellsBalls · 27/10/2025 07:15

There is no genocide in Gaza.
Hamas should have worked towards a 2-state solution rather than starting a war.
All the bloodshed is on the hands of Hamas.

Despite some questionable deaths, which happen in every war (which is why nations don’t start wars against much stronger opponents) the IDF have done a great job in difficult circumstances. Hamas are fighting a Guerilla war from densely populated areas, using women and children as human shields.

Now they have been rescued from annihilation by Big Orange.

thingsarelookingupfornigel · 26/10/2025 22:32

SharonEllis · 26/10/2025 22:28

The worst genocide in modern history?! That's crazy even by the standards of exceptionalising Israel on this board

Genocide is about intent, but if you are talking about 'the worst' then numbers come into the equation because all of these had clear genocidal intent. Murders accompanied in most cases by sysyematic policies of rape.

Just some of the worst and most recent include

In 2002/3 Congo 40% of the pygmy population murdered in a systematic attempt to ethnically cleanse them

200,000 Hutus killed in Congo

Rwandan genocide - Wikipedia https://share.google/selYI0rVpU57wBeol
Up to a million killed

Cambodia, well over a million killed through mass executions, labour camps, starvation

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And?

SharonEllis · 26/10/2025 22:28

BluntPlumHam · 26/10/2025 19:13

Oh I’m so sorry the world won’t let you get away with murdering innocent people en masse … throw all the tantrums in the world but the worst genocide in modern history has been committed/on going in Palestine and if after visiting Auchswitz you can’t see that then you’re very much part of the problem and reason why atrocities are allowed to go on.

Show quote history

The worst genocide in modern history?! That's crazy even by the standards of exceptionalising Israel on this board

Genocide is about intent, but if you are talking about 'the worst' then numbers come into the equation because all of these had clear genocidal intent. Murders accompanied in most cases by sysyematic policies of rape.

Just some of the worst and most recent include

In 2002/3 Congo 40% of the pygmy population murdered in a systematic attempt to ethnically cleanse them

200,000 Hutus killed in Congo

Rwandan genocide - Wikipedia https://share.google/selYI0rVpU57wBeol
Up to a million killed

Cambodia, well over a million killed through mass executions, labour camps, starvation

Rwandan genocide - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_genocide

thingsarelookingupfornigel · 26/10/2025 22:25

NameChangedUnderstandingGained · 26/10/2025 22:18

Brilliant 👏 you should try history too, you might then begin to understand what so many others support and understand that Israel should exist. Doesn't mean no Palestine, both states should exist but terrorists cannot be allowed to kill people going about a music festival or in a oeace loving kibbutz.

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And I do.

Original poster
NameChangedUnderstandingGained · 26/10/2025 22:18

thingsarelookingupfornigel · 26/10/2025 21:58

Correction. You went to Poland. And now understand. Well, I’m in awe!

Brilliant 👏 you should try history too, you might then begin to understand what so many others support and understand that Israel should exist. Doesn't mean no Palestine, both states should exist but terrorists cannot be allowed to kill people going about a music festival or in a oeace loving kibbutz.

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thingsarelookingupfornigel · 26/10/2025 21:58

Correction. You went to Poland. And now understand. Well, I’m in awe!

Notsolittlebutstillsoyoung · 26/10/2025 21:47

BelleHathor · 26/10/2025 21:30

Shh, it's not meant to make sense. That's the thing with exceptionalism/supremacism, one rule for me and another rule for thee...

Logically the argument espoused applied equally means that people that lost their land less than 80 years ago are fully entitled to claim it back......

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Exactly. Lose it when you were a child, or when your parents lived there, perhaps you still have the keys to your grandparents home - how entitled are you, move along and get over it.

Lose it before the Roman empire even existed and it should be yours forever. What, because those people are more special or something?

You're right though, it's supremacism, which is vile racism in my book.

Original poster
NameChangedUnderstandingGained · 26/10/2025 21:35

thingsarelookingupfornigel · 26/10/2025 21:15

Not sure I understand. You went to Germany, and now suddenly understand the Israeli need to defend itself? Despite their need to destroy the Palestinians? Well? Go you. Keep being empathetic. We all need it.

Show quote history

I never went to Germany.

I understand the history of the Jewish people more than before and because they were still being hounded, persecuted, even after the war, understand why the need for a homeland. They have also been 'reduced in number' in almost all arab middle east countries, so those countries aren't safe for them.

I said I understand why they defend themselves from terrorists. The rest you made up. I have no idea why so many people hated and still appear to hate Jews. It's awful, so I understand their need to ensure they aren't victims of another genocide

Other things including I didn't say

OP posts:
BelleHathor · 26/10/2025 21:30

Notsolittlebutstillsoyoung · 26/10/2025 21:16

I'm really puzzled here. On the one hand we're being told that people lose their land all the time, think of the aborigines, get over it and move on. And on the other hand, people that lost their land over 2,000 years ago have a powerful claim to the land that they lost.

It's so hypocritical it hurts.

Shh, it's not meant to make sense. That's the thing with exceptionalism/supremacism, one rule for me and another rule for thee...

Logically the argument espoused applied equally means that people that lost their land less than 80 years ago are fully entitled to claim it back......

DancefloorAcrobatics · 26/10/2025 21:30

Another reason why Israel was created after WW2 was the huge amount of European Jews that were held in refugee camps. Most notably in France and Cyprus ... Zionists, Haganah and Mossad l'Aliyah Bet did lobby in these camps for their cause and the creation of Israel.
This wasn't difficult, as the people in these camps were still held behind barbed wire with dreadful sanitation and very limited food supplies...
The creation of Israel was a British Allied UN solution to the problem of finding homes for displaced and broken people that clearly couldn't return to were they lived pre war.

Notsolittlebutstillsoyoung · 26/10/2025 21:16

I'm really puzzled here. On the one hand we're being told that people lose their land all the time, think of the aborigines, get over it and move on. And on the other hand, people that lost their land over 2,000 years ago have a powerful claim to the land that they lost.

It's so hypocritical it hurts.

thingsarelookingupfornigel · 26/10/2025 21:15

NameChangedUnderstandingGained · 26/10/2025 21:09

What are you on about? It's getting comical now.

Show quote history

Not sure I understand. You went to Germany, and now suddenly understand the Israeli need to defend itself? Despite their need to destroy the Palestinians? Well? Go you. Keep being empathetic. We all need it.

Original poster
NameChangedUnderstandingGained · 26/10/2025 21:09

thingsarelookingupfornigel · 26/10/2025 20:58

Just because you went to Germany recently and have some sympathies with Israeli’s isn’t going to stop all the people around the world seeing it for what it is. Sorry.

Show quote history

What are you on about? It's getting comical now.

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thingsarelookingupfornigel · 26/10/2025 21:08

Good lord. Honestly? I have no doubt all religious texts can fit anybodies needs when as.

Original poster
NameChangedUnderstandingGained · 26/10/2025 21:06

ohfook · 26/10/2025 19:48

If you are pro-keeping a land for Jewish people @NameChangedUnderstandingGainedwhat price are you willing to pay for it?
This is a genuine question by the way, not goady, because it’s something on
paper that I’m in favour of, but actually not at the cost of any children’s lives.
Equally would you still feel the same if instead in 1948 the UN had decided that Scotland or a bit of Manchester was going to be the safe piece of land?

I'm for a Jewish state. If terrorists attack then the terrorists need pursuing. That terrorists don't care about their children, their wives, their countrymen is tragic.

Cannot let terrorists continue to attack though. I doubt many countries would roll over and give up because terrorists attack. They'd fight back. Why shouldn't Israel fight back. I don't think other Arab countries trust Palestinians to make good choices so other Arab countries are supporting an interim group running Gaza in the meantime. Those other Arab nations cannot all be wrong, none of them seem overly keen on what choices Hamas have made on behalf of Gazans though.

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SisterTeatime · 26/10/2025 21:03

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

I must have missed the bit where

a) dairydebris posted that all humans aren’t equal

b) you gave anyone grounds for thinking you were going to be quiet

🤷‍♀️

GentleSheep · 26/10/2025 21:01

Mangetouts · 26/10/2025 20:19

The Bible....hmmm. Excuse me for not taking the content of that as gospel (and excuse the pun).

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It's a pity you don't because all the history is there, all the details you could want. And it's all factual! As time goes on, more and more of it is being shown to be true as more archaeological discoveries are made.

thingsarelookingupfornigel · 26/10/2025 20:58

NameChangedUnderstandingGained · 26/10/2025 20:50

"Good Luck with the rest of this thread OP. I think you're brave ☺️."

I'm starting to understand why people don't bother with these threads and avoid them, when some just cannot read what is written and so invent stuff 😂 is it sad they do this or their way of keeping it about what they want to chat about.

Edited

Just because you went to Germany recently and have some sympathies with Israeli’s isn’t going to stop all the people around the world seeing it for what it is. Sorry.

Original poster
NameChangedUnderstandingGained · 26/10/2025 20:50

"Good Luck with the rest of this thread OP. I think you're brave ☺️."

I'm starting to understand why people don't bother with these threads and avoid them, when some just cannot read what is written and so invent stuff 😂 is it sad they do this or their way of keeping it about what they want to chat about.

OP posts:
Doggielovecharlotte · 26/10/2025 20:49

ginasevern · 26/10/2025 17:03

It wasn't "only" the holocaust. Jews have been persecuted, murdered and violated for centuries include the progroms in Eastern Europe, the expulsion of all Jews from England and across Europe and the horrific Crusade Massacres. They have never been safe from violence and the instantaneous seizure of everything they own.

This! Jewish people persecuted and expelled for thousands of years

BluntPlumHam · 26/10/2025 20:45

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Original poster
NameChangedUnderstandingGained · 26/10/2025 20:42

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Again I didn't say what you are saying I said. Try reading what I said. I understand why Israel was created.

Since you keep repeating incorrectly what I didn't say, I'll ask again, are you drinking 🤔 How do you get through life making things up. Whats the point?

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Original poster
NameChangedUnderstandingGained · 26/10/2025 20:35

dairydebris · 26/10/2025 20:00

You can't honestly be trying to imply that what was done by the Nazis to Jewish people is the equivalent of what Israel is doing to Palestinians?

It sounds as though you've forgotten who started this war.

Israel's war on Gaza, however you feel about proportionality, cannot be compared to Hitlers completely unprovoked slaughter of Jews.

You've completely missed the point the OP is trying to make.

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💯

Posters tend to jump in with their entrenched points but miss the original post. There are literally hundreds of threads and most that I have read are taken off point.

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