Deeper understanding of why Israel was created

Do you regard Oct 7th as self defence?

Yes or No will do.

WTF are you on about. There is literally nothing complicated about it. Are Palestinians allowed self defense?

You don't actually know how little military equipment is SOLD through commercial companies, not given by the UK government, to Israel do you? Absolutely tiny in both volume & proportion. Do you know which countries in the middle east receive vastly more weaponry than Israel? Tell us about their humanitarian record? Their complicity in the deaths of thousands of children? And how do you describe the aid to Palestinians that is diverted to despicable purposes of various sorts?

Iran provides funding and weapons for Hamas and Hezbollah to commit atrocities against Israelis. So it is complicated. I think Israel has the right to exist without being attacked ( as do the Palestinians)

Did you not understand my first statement to you. I don't care about British aid that only serves to bandage up bodies after British weapons were used to tear them apart. Selling weapons, or components, to facilitate mass murder and then try to claim we support the victims too is?? I don't think I know how to describe it.

Makes us all complicit in some very dodgy stuff doesn't it? I must have missed the threads objecting to taxes going to pay for slay or subsidising employees of unwra who were complicit in 7 October.

@Squeezingwildoranges
I presume you don’t object to the financial aid the government has supplied to support Palestinians

The British Government aid for Palestinians
“How much UK aid has been committed?
Between 2009 and 2024, the UK provided a total of £932 million in bilateral aid (aid for a specific programme or purpose) to the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. In 2022, the UK gave £23 million (the lowest amount in any year since 2009); in 2023 this increased to £42 million and in 2024 to £138 million.
In 2025/26, the UK is planning to provide £116 million of aid. A breakdown has not been published. In 2024/25, UK aid included £10 million, via the World Bank, for the Palestinian Authority (in the West Bank) to pay public sector salaries. It also included £34 million for UNRWA.

I don’t think I have missed your point .
I think you are not interested in answering further questions about your position. That’s your prerogative - but it does make your case less convincing.

You are missing the point completely. I have no idea what the actual figures on aid are and have no interest in knowing. What I don't like is the fact that my government is not only still dealing with Israel, they're actively supporting them. I don't like being complicit by association in infanticide let alone genocide.

I thought the questions @SharonEllis was asking was whether you knew how much the Palestinians were given in aid as well as what percentage of taxation money goes on their “persecution”?
Your answer suggests you don’t know precisely but even 1p of support for Israel you would consider too much.
You were also asked whether the government spends tax payers money in other ways you object to or whether ( in your view ) this is the only misuse of taxpayers’ money ?

I didn't report @SharonEllis. I didn't feel personally attacked or offended so I have no idea who did.

What point would that be?

Yasser Arafat before he was assassinated!

I notice you arent addressing the point.

If they do want to leave it is because they are tired of their kids being murdered on a daily basis, tired of the starvation, tired of medicines being seized, tired of the entire population of one of the most densely populated areas on earth being corralled into a third of the area and forced to live in tents but mostly, they're tired of the fact that the world is sitting back and not only allowing it to happen but actively supporting an apartheid, terrorist, regime commit formally recognised crimes against humanity.

I don't care how much of it goes to repressing the Palestinians. 1p would be too much. It is not just the money. It is the total hypocrisy. I just an interview with Huckaby saying the Israel has no intention of forcefully evicting the Palestinians from Gaza but if they choose to go, they should be allowed. This is not the first time in history that voluntary emigration has been encouraged as a policy.

The Mizrahi were driven out of Arab countries from 1948 onwards. After the formation of Israel. The expulsion was encouraged by Mossad planting bombs in Jewish neighbourhoods to encourage the violence. If the tie to the land is so strong, why did they start to Europeanise the land by planting European style forests and banning the indigenous black goats.

Most likely because their leaders decided to start a war with their much stronger neighbours deliberately, knowing Gaza would be destroyed, to use them as human sacrifices to demonise the Jews.

They must surely be aware of this - they were aware of Oct 7th because they were out on the streets cheering for it. Knew there were hundreds of hostages in Gaza because some of them were kept in their homes. Knew there were no bomb shelters or civilian defence of any kind. Knew where Hamas bases and munitions were, and that rockets were being fired from tents.

The penny must have dropped at some point!

Who on earth would want to stay in that situation in the knowledge that Hamas is just going to rebuild themselves with thousands of willing recruits and try to repeat the whole thing again in a few years?

Do you know how much of your taxes go towards 'reppressing' the,Palestinians, I wonder? And how much goes in aid to them? Do you know how much of your taxes go towards other activities that you object to, or is it just this cause that interests you?

You seem to be conveniently ignoring the fact that more than half the population of Israel is Mzrachi. It wasnt just the shoah in Europe it was the persecution and expulsion of Jews across the Middle East, who also lost their homes, assets and livelihoods, even if they escaped with their lives. You call it settle colonialism is nonsense and how giving a chunk of Germany to the Jews would have made sense I have no idea. The Jews have an unbreakable tie to Israel.

@OpenScroller i don’t think anyone is saying they must leave, but that they should have the right to remain in peace and safety with an adequate standard of living. I have Gazan friends who are desperate to leave unsurprisingly - they have been displaced more times than they can count and are still living in abject poverty under canvas, despite being educated professionals who have actually been relatively “lucky” in that they can find some work. They want a future for themselves, and particularly their kids.

They could have a good life elsewhere - they speak multiple languages, have studied abroad before and have high-level professional qualifications. But they know if they do manage to leave (which is currently incredibly difficult and near impossible for the whole family to go together) their wider family will be even more vulnerable. And for many leaving would just mean exchanging one refugee camp for another even if it were possible.

I want people like my friends to have a choice - to be able to live in safety somewhere where they and their kids can have a bright future, or they can take up opportunities abroad if they wish. At the moment they have neither option.

@Squeezingwildoranges ,

‘You could argue that if there was barren land they had as much right to it as anyone but that's not what happened. They stole actual homes, not just barren land.’

Yes, and it was unjust, but far fewer than most think and far fewer than those who now claim Palestinian heritage.

‘I understand the desire for a safe place for the Jews after the Shoah but not at the expense of a population that had nothing to do with it. Perhaps a chunk of Germany should have been carved off for that.’

In a way, that would have been the ideal solution, but we can’t go back to 1945, and no one thought like that back then.

‘To be clear, my position is rooted in a fundamental opposition to ethnocracies and theocracies of any kind, whether Jewish, Christian, or Muslim. I believe a just system cannot give preferential treatment to one specific ethnic or religious group over all others. It is divisive and a major source of racism. King Charles recently declared he is defender of the faiths, not just the faith, and people went nuts.’

To some extent, on a purely theoretical basis, I agree with you. However, the world is at it is, not how we would like it to be. When antisemitism disappears, the need for a Jewish state will disappear (and no, it doesn’t work in reverse. There was no shortage of antisemitism pre Israel.

Do you care so much about the minorities in the much larger and more populous Islamic states?! Maybe, once they become secular and tolerant, it will be Israel’s turn.

(And I shouldn’t have to, but, just to once again state that the current government of Israel is behaving despicably and I am in favour of a just two state solution, based on the 1967 borders).

Why do you think they want to leave?