Deeper understanding of why Israel was created

'Imagine what a fantastic country it would be if they did manage to share'

So to understand your point- if Isreal hadn’t been created, there would be extensive Jewish population in all Middle Eastern countries? They would have roles in government and there would be no issues and everyone would be peaceful?

They were driven out because of European Zionism and the persecution of Palestinians. Who helped to drive them out? If you want to do some research look up Yosef Ibrahim Basri.

Present day
Tiny population: Today, the Jewish population in Iraq is believed to be fewer than five individuals.
End of an era: The disappearance of the community marks the end of a nearly 3,000-year history.

Awful how Jewish people have been gradually eliminated or moved from various countries in the middle east and yet still some/many? would also deny them Israel. Some won't be happy until there are no Jewish people 😢

I am not trying to rewrite a well established definition. I’m merely applying logic. Individual Jewish communities in different countries could certainly be described as separate ethnic groups within that country. The Ethiopean Jews would certainly have been a separate ethnic group in Ethiopia. I would even concede that Jews in Europe could be classed as an ethnic group but I think that gets stretched when looking at Western and Eastern Europe. There is no way though that you could say that Chinese and Ethiopean Jews are a single ethnic group.

And what happened to the Jews of Iraq? Do tell.

Sorry, you are trying to rewrite the well established definition of a people and a culture? I am not even going to engage in this attempt to delegitimise the Jewish people. The formation of the modern state of Israel is irrelevant to this. Go and do some basic research.

Sounds like you’re coming round to my way of thinking. Imagine what a fantastic country it would be if they did manage to share and imagine what it would do for peace in the Middle East. Iraqi, Egyptian, etc., Jews would be able to return to their lands, if they so chose to, to help rebuild the countries into something wonderful. Just look at what Sassoon Eskell did for Iraq. Israel should always be a safe haven and homeland for Jews but this time, with the additional protection of the Arabs, not just fighting them.

Sounds like you’re coming round to my way of thinking. Imagine what a fantastic country it would be if they did manage to share and imagine what it would do for peace in the Middle East. Iraqi, Egyptian, etc., Jews would be able to return to their lands, if they so chose to, to help rebuild the countries into something wonderful. Just look at what Sassoon Eskell did for Iraq. Israel should always be a safe haven and homeland for Jews but this time, with the additional protection of the Arabs, not just fighting them.

I'm genuinely concerned that people feel its ok to say things like these out loud. Perhaps they are not thinking deeply about what what they are saying really means?

Saying Israel has no right to be where it is is precisely the narrative of Iran, Hamas, the most radical of Islamists. Its absolutely the gateway thought to extremity. When did it become mainstream?

Why isnt the same true of Palestinians?

I find it shocking that people feel its ok to say out loud that Israel had no right to be formed where it is. Its such an extreme view. Its ahistorical and deeply inhumane. And puts you in some really unpleasant company.

The truth is both peoples are indigenous to the land, and both have a legitimate claim.

The difficulty is finding a way for them to share.

People on here denying the right of the other is the narrative that backs up perpetual war.

@dairydebris this thread is a new low, for sure.

They can integrate anywhere. Why do they specifically need a country/state? Judaism is a religion, not an ethnicity. There is no specific country for each religion, in which you are automatically granted citizenship of.. just because you follow said religion?

Ethnicity is more than a shared religion otherwise every religion is an ethno-religion. Could you tell me, prior to the formation of Israel, what culture and traditions did a Yemeni Jew share with a European Jew. They didn’t even share a language. Yemeni Jews spoke Arabic, a semitic language and European Jews spoke Yiddish, a Germanic language. Other than during religious festivals, they ate different food, listened to different music and dressed differently. Please explain to me how that is an ethnicity regardless of the different physical traits.

No. Jewishness is an ethnicity. Judaism is an ethno-religion. Non practising, completely secular Jews have the right of return. They are still Jewish. J

Jews have integrated wherever they have lived for 100s of years and time and time again Been persecuted and expelled. So, again, which specific country should they go to?

It is not possible to be this ignorant.

They can integrate anywhere. Why do they specifically need a country/state? Judaism is a religion, not an ethnicity. There is no specific country for each religion, in which you are automatically granted citizenship of.. just because you follow said religion?

@SharonEllis

Because I grew up thinking the West were ‘wonderful’ for winning two world wars and never knew about the devastation they caused in the Middle East until - probably the growth of the internet.

I think you need to consider the bias in everything you read, every newspaper, every source.
I gave an example of how Western control devastated a region.

I’m glad you know so much about history, because - despite going to a ‘good’ school - I was never taught this.

"Indigenous thousands of years ago.
It would be like giving the UK back to the Romans!"

The Romans weren't indigenous to the UK though, so your example is incorrect.

They can integrate anywhere. Why do they specifically need a country/state? Judaism is a religion, not an ethnicity. There is no specific country for each religion, in which you are automatically granted citizenship of.. just because you follow said religion?

The British government signed the Balfour agreement and later supported the creation of Israel due to its own political interests. Sadly our establishment has never been motivated by humanitarian reasons.

So where should Jewish people live?

“The redrawing of borders by European colonial powers to establish influence in the region, creating artificial nation-states, led to conflicts between different ethnic and religious groups. The creation of Iraq, in 1921, brought together Sunni Arabs, Shiite Arabs and Kurds who had historically lived in separate regions under the rule of the Sunni minority. The tensions between the different groups impacted the escalation of militant Islam and conflicts that continue into the 21st century.”