Deeper understanding of why Israel was created

What discrimination exactly?

Systemic discrimination against Arab Israelis is definitely something that needs addressing by Israel. Its not fine, I don't know why you'd say it is? Unless you think Arabs deserve discriminating against?

Arab citizens of Israel face similar or worse 'mind persecution' and apparently that's fine as they are able to vote. Either mild persecution is fine for both or neither.

So, if life was so awful, why did thousands decline the £50,000 per family (2025 value) incentive to go to Israel ?

Try to stop seeing things in black and white terms, Israel good / Arab nations bad. Things are far more entwined, intricate and nuanced than that.

Well, exactly.

At least the 8,000 Jews left in Iran out of 100,000 only have to suffer being heavily monitored and censored and used as a tokenistic anti-Zionist mouthpiece in order to avoid being persecuted and murdered by the current regime so it's fine.

Indeed. Rather hoped we'd moved on from that 🤷‍♀️

I think 'not too bad' was the most Jews could realistically expect anywhere, so a bit of mild persecution is probably fine in some people's minds.

Those Jews should be grateful they are only subject to mild persecution, is that right?

That article is 18 years old and completely irrelevant.

Unsurprisingly, some Jews of Iran would like to remain in their homeland where they have ancient roots and an incredibly strong, distinct national and cultural identity.

It's also unsurprising that the tiny population of Jews that remain and are tolerated in Iran would vocally reject Israel and Zionism to be safe as Zionism is prohibited by law by the current regime. Even acknowledging any love or respect for Israel or the religious significance or meaning of Israel to them as Jews is impossible and any connections or communications with Israelis can be prosecuted as the crime of "spying for Israel" and punishable by execution.

"Hostility between Iran's government and Israel means Iranian Jews are often subject to official mistrust and scrutiny."

Aye what a fucking paradise.

In what sense is it a failed project?

It exists.
It can defend itself.
It has a self sustaining economy.
It has powerful allies.
It has rule of law.
Its citizens enjoy a decent standard of living.

If anything, the Palestinian state is a failed project.

Terrible human rights record.
Lawlessness and violence on the streets.
Dependant on aid.
Highly questionable allies.
Split government.
No democracy.
Occupied.
Half completely demolished.
Its citizens suffering from homelessness and hunger.

Time to try some new tactics maybe?

Explain to me exactly how Israel is a failed project?

Theres history and there’s what’s happening right now. Israel is a failed project.

So much for the "it's all rainbows and unicorns for Jews in Iran" story.
https://thejewishindependent.com.au/life-for-jews-in-iran-is-now-even-more-precarious

To indulge this magical thinking for a moment, when we return to our lands that so eagerly stripped us of citizenship and rights, would this involve acknowledgement and reparations from their governments for the many billions of pounds worth of property, assets, livelihoods (and in some cases, lives) that were taken from us? In the interests of additional protection and the wonderful sharing and rebuilding that Jews would be helping with as we're welcomed back to all these lands with open arms, hearts and minds?

As the mass expulsion and dispossession of Jews from their MENA homelands was less than 80 years ago, everything should be returned to them similar to that being advocated for Palestinians within the same time frame, right?

Wow, there’s delusion and there’s complete delusion or perhaps it’s not?

A safe haven for Jews with the protection of the Arabs…….

So Jews are responsible for their own massacre, not the people who carried them out. What else do you blame them for? The Russian pogroms? October 7th? The Holocaust?

I have no interest in debating sykes-picot at the moment I'm afraid. Im intrigued by 'the west' taking control of oil and trade routes though. 'The west' was quite divided at that point (WWI and all).

They both need a State. They both deserve a homeland where they are not treated as second class citizens. But neither of those can come from delegitimizing the other claim.

Goes for both sides.

@SharonEllis

Of course I don’t think the West are the source of all things bad - but the West did do some incredibly bad things which are definitely glossed over - as much as incredibly bad things that have happened to us.
In fact, I’d say it’s animalistic behaviour. To be territorial - and the victors to be seen as ‘superior’. It’s also very male driven behaviour.
As humans - what sets us apart from other animals, is hopefully - our ability to empathise, be civilised and sympathise. To have ‘manners’ (as noted by Brett Easton-Ellis). Otherwise it is all-out war and survival of the fittest.
As you are so educated - what is your opinion of the Sykes/Picot agreement? All fair? Did it have no impact? Do you think that the West were right to take control of oil and trade routes with no consideration of the communities that were living there?

Further, this repetition of Israel being born of European terrorism is a meaningful part of a really clear wider narrative.

'Israel wasn't born of the Jewish desire for self determination in the land of their history, rather its a violent European construct- colonisation- and as such is not legitimate.'

I read a lot of Palestinian literature, more and less extreme, and this absolutely falls in with the most extreme of them all. Jewish history and identity delegitimized. Palestinians victims of a colonial European project. Resistance justified. Then, resistance by any means justified.

Perfectly put.