Israelis should be welcome in Birmingham

Is these fans were anything other than Israeli this wouldn’t even be a debate.

No one wants any trouble and to say anyone would enjoy it is a bit sick tbh.

The problem is the petition people and the police didn't get their stories straight about the banning so it looks like there is an anti semitic agenda under the guise of a safety concern.

I've no idea if some are being naive or what but in the current climate with the conflict in gaza and the rise of anti Jewish hate in this country this is absolutely about more than football thugs. It is what it represents.

So again, cancel all fans or allow all and police it.

That does seem to confirm that you support the ban on the ground that Israelis coming to the game - in their team’s shirts, with team scarves, flags etc - would provoke violence from people who oppose Israel.

Leaving aside the doubtful motives of anti-Israel campaigners and activists, that basis for a ban on football supporters is at the very least sad and regrettable. More importantly it’s a disgrace that Israeli citizens should be treated like that merely for being Israeli.

BTW, the Maccabi fans weren’t attacked in Amsterdam by Ajax fans. They were attacked by violent people opposed to Israel.

It seems that quite a few posters not only want this trouble to kick off, but would actually quite enjoy it.

what Is it that you want to happen? Do you want them allowed because they are Jewish Israelis irrespective of what they have done?
You have been told so many times that blanket fan bans based on the behaviour of some supporters is normal.
I can’t understand the point you are making, is it that they should be welcome purely because of their religion? Or are you saying the ban is because of their religion and none of them cause a safety risk?

That is scraping the barrel, @Gloriia. you’re better than that.

It is a safety decision for all concerned. Nothing more, nothing less.

Well it’s also untrue based on what the Israeli police actually said. But it fits the agenda so let’s go with that.

Oh here we go. How dare you make those sort of accusations over something as petty as a banning order for, at most, 5000 football fans?

How dare you use the plight and suffering of 6 million people to try and points score? Utterly disgusting.

They have not banned Jews, nor Israelis. Jews and Israelis are free to purchase tickets to the game in the home end (so long as they are not wearing opposition colours - a typical condition of a football ticket). MTA fans are not allowed at the game. It’s that simple.

I believe that the WM police have the final say in such decisions, after taking advice?

'Irrelevant'

I bet they all told themselves that in 1930s Germany too.

Well yes, the entirely legitimate grounds were violence. Thats enough in and of itself, surely? I’ve also said that all evidence and intelligence would have been taken into account. All obviously includes the views of representatives of local groups in light of the bigger picture.

I expect that the Safety Advisory Group makes decisions in respect of all visiting groups following the same process. This one isn’t special or treated differently. As it should be.

I’m afraid I’m not aware of any decisions regarding Diwali. That is sad. The last thing we need is more inter-religious hate.

Look at the time😱
Have a great afternoon.

Their nationality and religion is irrelevant.

But it never was a purely policing decision was it? The decision by WM Police to ban Israeli fans was on the advice of the Birmingham Safety Advisory Group (SAG).

I expect it did. As I’ve said several times, the WM police would have looked at all of the evidence before making its decision.

As Iv’e also said, any local residents, Muslim or otherwise out looking for trouble and behaving violently had the match gone ahead should be arrested.

From what I’ve seen of the violence in Amsterdam, I’d ban both groups of supporters from travelling anywhere.
A much stronger stance against any such behaviour, by any group of “fans” (I use that term loosely), is the only way to rid football of violence.

Of course, management will be reluctant to lose revenue.

Actually you were quite clear in stating that that "there were entirely legitimate grounds for banning this club that had nothing to do with ethnicity or religion".

The West Midlands Police statement doesn't agree with you- stating that it is due to hate crimes as shown in Amsterdam.

You cite the recent cancellation of the game in Tel Aviv this weekend due to violence as evidence for why the MTA fans should be banned, yet this information only occurred after the WMP had made their statement.

The decision not to allow visitors from Tel Aviv was made by the WMP on the advice of the Birmingham Safety Advisory Group (SAG) on which body sit representatives of Birmingham city council, the British Transport Police and the various emergency services of the West Midlands.

Interestingly earlier this month, the SAG also advised the organisers of a Diwali Mela festival to be held in Handsworth to also be can cancelled due to the recent terror attacks in Manchester.

So it now seems that Hindus as well as Jews are not safe in Birmingham.

Ok, speak for yourself alone.

Do you think the prospect of violence from anti-Israel protestors played a part in the decision? If you think it did, was a ban justified on that basis or part-basis?

FWIW I can only see the reference to Amsterdam in the statements from the police that I’ve read to be confirmation that it was wider disorder than by Maccabi supporters that lay behind the decision.

According to reports it was the other team, Hapoel, who threw smoke grenades and flares

That would seem logical as the smoke is red and white - Hapoel team colours.

I don’t know, can’t speak for them. I’ve consistently said that the police authority would have looked at all evidence and intelligence in the round to reach its decision.

All the PM and HS’s rushed statements tell me is that after the horrific assault in Manchester and calls for better protection for Jewish citizens, they are feeling under extreme political pressure.

Personally, I disagree with them, I think the statements only served to escalate an already volatile situation. They ought to have let it remain a purely policing decision but Tbf they’re damned if they do, damned if they don’t, obviously, walking a tightrope.

Also, Jews haven’t been banned. MTA fans have been. Can we stick to the facts please

If the evidence isn’t available why do posters keep saying that the ban is purely because of the travelling fans’ violence? Why do none of those posters supporting the ban acknowledge that disorder may well have been expected from anti-Israel protestors?

I don’t know if there’s institutional antisemitism at work or whether the police, in particular, were just worried about violence from others because of the presence of Israeli supporters. If it’s the second, that’s just not good enough. Football fans shouldn’t be banned on the basis that they’re from Israel.

It’s very telling that the Prime Minister and Home Secretary both came out quickly against this ban.

Presumably you’re against all stadium bans, including at the old firm Derby?

when enough fans have been problematic enough to be banned ALL fans are
this is normal, it doesn’t matter that other fans are perfectly decent people, this is how it works

I’m not sure how you can expect another poster to answer your questions as neither they nor you are privy to all of the available intelligence.

Senior police officers were and in consultation with relevant local and international football association representatives with expertise carried out their usual risk assessment.

For the safety of opposing fans, local residents and their officers they made the correct decision.

The only other conclusion is that WM police is institutionally anti-Semitic, which is one hell of a serious accusation.

Football hooliganism is never ok and should be policed like every other match.

The problem is this team's supporters have all been labelled thugs which is not true. As I said previously Emly Damari one of the released hostages is a fan, should she be banned?

For the trillionth time banning Jews in predominantly Muslim area is not a good look. The MP rattled on about anti Israel crap in his petition.That will have had influence.

Be more inclusive Birmingham. Banning Jews is not ok.

Do you think the organised violence directed at Maccabi fans in Amsterdam was acceptable? If so, why?

Do you think the safety advice for the Aston Villa game was based solely on Maccabi fans’ own behaviour? If you do, could you point to the evidence for that being the only reason.

Or do you think that the safety concerns also arose because anti-Israel protestors were likely to take part in violence? If do you think that was part of it, do you agree with a ban on Israeli supporters on that basis?