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Conflict in the Middle East

What was the purpose of this level of destruction?

317 replies

Stripes56 · 12/10/2025 22:47

Gazans are returning to their homes and are horrified to see the level of destruction. Their joy mixed with despair.

www.timesofisrael.com/gazans-joy-over-ceasefire-tempered-by-shock-as-they-return-to-destroyed-homes/

We can feel joy that the hostages are returning home, relief that Hamas will be sidelined - but how do we reconcile with the death and destruction that has happened in Gaza?

OP posts:
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Martymcfly24 · 13/10/2025 16:56

DrPrunesqualer · 13/10/2025 16:46

Why would anyone be watching this Eve Cohen person if that’s what he does ??

She does skits on Tik Tok and posted one with a Keffiyeh and a "dead baby" then pretended the cameras had stopped rolling and threw the baby away to claim it's all propaganda.
There's also accounts that flick lights on and off and turn on taps to mock the lack of electricity and water in Gaza.

Obviously a market for them.

DrPrunesqualer · 13/10/2025 16:46

Martymcfly24 · 13/10/2025 16:31

I take it you are not IDF soliders social media. What they have posted is up there with anything you could post here too that Palestinans have said.

My personal favorite was where he wrapped himself in a body bag(black bags) then sneezed so said it had to be retaken(I.e it's all fake). Also Eve Cohen is not a solider but a particularly insidious influencer who likes to mock the suffering of Palestinians.

Edited

Why would anyone be watching this Eve Cohen person if that’s what he does ??

Martymcfly24 · 13/10/2025 16:45

Pasly · 13/10/2025 16:43

That's clearly not what they did maybe read the post their response was to.

Thank you @Pasly .
You have got to love all the indignation .

Martymcfly24 · 13/10/2025 16:43

Gloriia · 13/10/2025 16:38

'My personal favorite was where he wrapped himself in a body bag(black bags) then sneezed so said it had to be retaken(I.e it's all fake)'

What? You're comparing an IDF soldier pretending to be dead and sneezing <how very horrific> with all the actual footage we have seen of the atrocities committed on Oct 7th?!

No.
I was pointing out to the poster who was posting about things Palestinians said that the IDF and many Israelis on social media have shown themselves to be cruel and heartless also with all the atrocities they have committed every day since October 7th.

Pasly · 13/10/2025 16:43

Gloriia · 13/10/2025 16:38

'My personal favorite was where he wrapped himself in a body bag(black bags) then sneezed so said it had to be retaken(I.e it's all fake)'

What? You're comparing an IDF soldier pretending to be dead and sneezing <how very horrific> with all the actual footage we have seen of the atrocities committed on Oct 7th?!

That's clearly not what they did maybe read the post their response was to.

Pasly · 13/10/2025 16:42

Jujujudo · 13/10/2025 16:27

I’m done I AM DONE!!!! The only thing that stops me from going crazy is knowing that the truth will come out now, it’s already happening and then we will all see these evil antisemites clearly - with all their lies and defensiveness and gaslighting in black and white for all to see.

I am so confused by this post. Who was not allowing independent press into Gaza? Eh Israel. Why was all you claim hidden from us by Israel? They controlled the access to Gaza so it is really weird they let Hamas gaslight everyone in the way you suggest.

Gloriia · 13/10/2025 16:38

'My personal favorite was where he wrapped himself in a body bag(black bags) then sneezed so said it had to be retaken(I.e it's all fake)'

What? You're comparing an IDF soldier pretending to be dead and sneezing <how very horrific> with all the actual footage we have seen of the atrocities committed on Oct 7th?!

Martymcfly24 · 13/10/2025 16:31

Jujujudo · 13/10/2025 16:24

Now do one for gazans! I’ll get you started: Father, father I killed ten Jews with my own hands, father I did it, I’m calling from their phone! Ten Jews with my hands. Father: Alluakbar! Alluakbar!
Here’s one: We will not stop until we kill every single Jew from the river to the sea! May their children’s blood run into the earth that we build on.
Here’s another: Rape them, tie them to trees, burn them until their clothes melt off for Allah is great!
I’ve loads more if it helps get some balance?

I take it you are not IDF soliders social media. What they have posted is up there with anything you could post here too that Palestinans have said.

My personal favorite was where he wrapped himself in a body bag(black bags) then sneezed so said it had to be retaken(I.e it's all fake). Also Eve Cohen is not a solider but a particularly insidious influencer who likes to mock the suffering of Palestinians.

Dagda · 13/10/2025 16:27

@cupfinalchaos i am specifically referring to the claim made by Netenyahu to the US government on the phone that dozens of children were bound together and burned. Which was not true.

I can only imagine what your nephew’s friend saw. And I am sure it was horrific: I don’t wish to diminish what happened at all: In fact that is my whole point. Why didn’t Netanyahu just talk about the horrific stories that actually happened, of which there was many? Why did he push false narratives? What was his goal by doing this?

No evidence has been provided by either side on the Bibas family deaths. Both Hamas and the Israeli government used their deaths to their own ends. It’s just awful.

Jujujudo · 13/10/2025 16:27

cupfinalchaos · 13/10/2025 15:43

Oh no you don’t- I’m going to stop you there. Whole families were burnt together children included. The soldiers (one of whom was my nephew’s friend) can testify as to what they found at the Kibbutzim after the massacre. But to humour you, let’s say it’s just a lie. Independent international forensic experts confirmed that the baby brothers Ariel and Kfir Bibas were strangled to death and mutilated. Would that also be an exaggeration then?? If the depraved terrorists were capable of doing that to two babies, is it not to much of a leap of imagination to think they’d be capable of burning and beheading children?
Perhaps it doesn’t suit your narrative.

I’m done I AM DONE!!!! The only thing that stops me from going crazy is knowing that the truth will come out now, it’s already happening and then we will all see these evil antisemites clearly - with all their lies and defensiveness and gaslighting in black and white for all to see.

Martymcfly24 · 13/10/2025 16:26

cupfinalchaos · 13/10/2025 15:43

Oh no you don’t- I’m going to stop you there. Whole families were burnt together children included. The soldiers (one of whom was my nephew’s friend) can testify as to what they found at the Kibbutzim after the massacre. But to humour you, let’s say it’s just a lie. Independent international forensic experts confirmed that the baby brothers Ariel and Kfir Bibas were strangled to death and mutilated. Would that also be an exaggeration then?? If the depraved terrorists were capable of doing that to two babies, is it not to much of a leap of imagination to think they’d be capable of burning and beheading children?
Perhaps it doesn’t suit your narrative.

Who were the international experts who said that about the Bibas children?

Jujujudo · 13/10/2025 16:24

KoalaKoKo · 13/10/2025 11:47

The Nationalist in Scotland put together some of quotes from Israeli leaders for their front cover - shocking stuff - it answers the question.

Now do one for gazans! I’ll get you started: Father, father I killed ten Jews with my own hands, father I did it, I’m calling from their phone! Ten Jews with my hands. Father: Alluakbar! Alluakbar!
Here’s one: We will not stop until we kill every single Jew from the river to the sea! May their children’s blood run into the earth that we build on.
Here’s another: Rape them, tie them to trees, burn them until their clothes melt off for Allah is great!
I’ve loads more if it helps get some balance?

DrPrunesqualer · 13/10/2025 15:57

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

You cannot speak for all westerners in their homes

Of course there will be investigations into war crimes
This isn’t something individual countries can pick and chose on nor carry out themselves

Investigations will be Independent, as they should always be

Bigpinksweater · 13/10/2025 15:48

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Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

DrPrunesqualer · 13/10/2025 15:47

Pasly · 13/10/2025 14:05

Back to the thread title the level of destruction is horrendous. They will be years coming back from this. I really want to see independent assessors getting access now so the dead can be retrieved from the rubble and proper safe zones for civilians established.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czew72350ngo

Agree. They will need a lot of support to find the dead

Im also wondering when Israel will release the Palestinian dead they have
There was mention of it in the ceasefire agreement that they would release a certain number.
They have never agreed to all the dead though and whilst families will be searching for their ‘missing’ relatives under the rubble, many may never find who they are looking for given what we know so far of the agreement.

Perhaps that’s still to be agreed by Israel

cupfinalchaos · 13/10/2025 15:43

Dagda · 13/10/2025 00:21

I don’t think it will happen for now.

I think it will be brushed under the carpet by this US led peace effort. Trump doesn’t have an interest in human rights, lasting peace…. He wanted the images that were making him look bad to stop coming. There will be no acknowledgement.

Hopefully in the future, with different people involved, there can be an acknowledgment of the enormity of what has happened in Gaza.

Even from an Israeli perspective I was even just thinking while , listening to one of the hostages family on the radio. There is something horrible that I can’t put into words there about the victims of 7/10 and how the Israeli government harnessed that pain and used it for evil basically. Horrific things happened to them and instead of talking about these very awful, very real things. The Israeli government were pushing this narrative of things that did not happen - like the beheaded babies and the burnt children. Like the real painful stories weren’t enough for them or something.

There will be a lot to unpick here by Israeli society generally. But probably not right now.

Oh no you don’t- I’m going to stop you there. Whole families were burnt together children included. The soldiers (one of whom was my nephew’s friend) can testify as to what they found at the Kibbutzim after the massacre. But to humour you, let’s say it’s just a lie. Independent international forensic experts confirmed that the baby brothers Ariel and Kfir Bibas were strangled to death and mutilated. Would that also be an exaggeration then?? If the depraved terrorists were capable of doing that to two babies, is it not to much of a leap of imagination to think they’d be capable of burning and beheading children?
Perhaps it doesn’t suit your narrative.

DrPrunesqualer · 13/10/2025 15:28

TheSillyCrab · 13/10/2025 14:22

They won't ever acknowledge it.

Agree
We are already seeing it

EmpressoftheMundane · 13/10/2025 15:26

TicklishMauveSquid · 13/10/2025 14:13

They really desperately now want us NOT to believe what we see (healthy looking, clean clothed, fresh hair cuts) when a few weeks ago they wanted us to to believe what could be seen in the pictures of emancipated babies and children who had undisclosed medical conditions.

It is perverse in the extreme!

People should be really insulted by how dumb the Hamas propaganda machine thinks they are.

The Hamas propaganda machine doesn’t have to good. They just need to give people an excuse to believe what they already want to believe.

DrPrunesqualer · 13/10/2025 15:22

Here’s another article on why Israel have destroyed Gaza
This from a reporter whose family owned an Olive Grove
Uprooted by Israeli bulldozers….were Hamas in the trees?!!
No but Palestinian lives were

“Gaza will be in the shadow of famine as long as we cannot plant our land
Israel destroyed or made inaccessible 98.5 percent of Gaza’s agricultural land. My family’s olive grove is part of it.”

By Said Alsaloul
Published On 13 Oct

“ From above, Gaza looks like a grey desert of rubble, its vibrant urban spaces reduced to ghost towns, its lush agricultural land and greenery wiped out.

The occupier’s aim was not only to render the Palestinians of Gaza homeless but also unable to provide for themselves. Uprooting the dispossessed and impoverished, those who have lost their connection to the land, is of course much easier.

This was the goal when Israeli tanks and bulldozers entered my family’s plot of land in the eastern part of Maghazi refugee camp and uprooted 55 olive trees, 10 palms and five fig

Seven families – we, friends and neighbours – benefited from the fruit and wood of that land.
One day in late August, a friend of mine called me with a terrible rumour he had heard: the Israeli tanks and bulldozers had advanced into the eastern part of Maghazi and levelled it all, uprooting trees and burying them. I gasped; our lifeline was gone.

Days later, the rumour was confirmed. The Israeli army had uprooted more than 600 trees in the area, mostly olive trees. Those who had fled from the area shared what they had seen. What was once a lush green stretch of land had been bulldozed into a yellow, lifeless desert.

Earlier in August, the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations (FAO) reported that 98.5 percent of Gaza’s agricultural land had been damaged or made inaccessible. I guess the destruction of our plot shrank that 1.5 percent even further.

Israel has rendered us fully dependent on aid, and it is the sole power that determines if, when and how much of it enters Gaza. Per the Integrated Food Security Phase Classification, 100 percent of Palestinians in Gaza experience some level of food insecurity.
Much of Gaza’s agricultural land remains out of reach, as Israel has withdrawn from just a part of the Gaza Strip. My family will have to wait for the implementation of the third phase of the ceasefire deal – if Israel agrees to implement it at all – to see the Israeli army withdraw to the buffer zone and regain access our land.

We have now lost our land twice. Once in 1948 and now again in 2025. Israel wants to repeat history and dispossess us again. It must not be allowed to convert more Palestinian land into buffer zones and national parks.
Getting back our land, rehabilitating and planting it is crucial not just for our survival, but also for maintaining our connection to the land. We must resist uprooting.”

views of the author
Interesting that he has picked up the damage the proposed wide buffer zones will do to Gazans ability to survive independently.

We’ll have to see how that overall plans works out for everyone in the coming months

This article yet again indicates the nonsense that Israel were ‘defending themselves’

Said Alsaloul | Al Jazeera News | Today's latest from Al Jazeera

Said Alsaloul

https://www.aljazeera.com/author/said-alsaloul

HellsBalls · 13/10/2025 15:17

Gloriia · 13/10/2025 14:35

Anyway. 20 innocent people home and safe which is brilliant news, sadly bodies of those murdered seem to have been mislaid.
Hundreds of murderers released back into gaza. What can possibly go wrong.

Yes. We are back to square one really, only with thousands dead in the meantime.
The end of this cycle of violence is just the beginning of the next.

Jujujudo · 13/10/2025 15:07

DancefloorAcrobatics · 13/10/2025 12:53

I understand enough about this conflict to know that it didn't start on 7/10/ 2023.
I also understand that Israel has had an aggressive expansion policy long before Hamas came into existence in the late 1980's.
This conflict is old and lines are blurred on both sides... Israel has its aggressive settlement politics and the Palestinians have a terrorist organisation.

Caught in the middle are civilians who just want to get on with their lives!

The region has an interesting history, it's worth exploring in order to understand how we got to today.

Again sorry but referring to Jews in Palestinian terrorists as aggressive settlers says it all. You’re ok with a state which is Judenfrei then? That refers to Jews that want to live there as settlers not citizens? Get outta here

Jujujudo · 13/10/2025 15:05

queenofarles · 13/10/2025 12:39

I know what’s happening right now in Gaza ,
factions are fighting each other , that’s what happens at the end of every war it happened in Syria , Iraq. and I don’t need to wait for the future, we’ve seen it live on TV for two whole years .

but what I don’t understand why no one wants to admit the atrocities that accrued in the last two years , all the vindication and justification or worse
total dismissal of all the death and destruction

I don’t understand the death of Hind rajab, I don’t understand the flour massacre , I don’t understand the Al-Tabaeen School massacre , the bombings of WCK convoy , the St. Porphyrius church massacre , the GHF Aid massacre the siege of Al shifaa hospitals , the abandoning and tragic death of NICU babies.

can you give a valid explanation ? These are at safe "zones" by the way.

I guess the gazans who joined in the massacre of Israelis and celebrated in the streets and who kept hostages as slaves in their homes and didn’t make sure their children had shelters are to blame. I’m done with my sympathy. Am Israel chai!

Bigpinksweater · 13/10/2025 14:43

Puppycrate · 13/10/2025 14:39

Yes it’s a stark observation to make but ‘never again’ really didn’t mean much sadly did it. Instead it was ‘look away’.

Much like how I imagine a nato response would be if one member was attacked - it wouldn’t be an all out like for like retaliation would be an ‘oh dear collateral damage we won’t escalate and cause ww3’ likewise the theory of MAD would be a similar pathetic response by the rich in their bunkers ‘oh dear well we won’t retaliate and obliterate the earth we will save the planet and not bomb back’ (in other words keeping something for themselves.

What are your thoughts on Mohamed Hamdan Dagalo?

Puppycrate · 13/10/2025 14:39

SameOldHill · 12/10/2025 23:07

We don’t. People need to push for real change in Gaza and the West Bank, for better conditions, rights and a decent state for Palestinians so we don’t repeat the cycle 15 years later.

And we need to push for justice so the Israeli leaders realise that they can’t commit such heinous acts and just go back to governing as if nothing happened.

From a personal standpoint I’ll never forget how the world leaders looked away, ignored their own people and made a mockery of international law.

Yes it’s a stark observation to make but ‘never again’ really didn’t mean much sadly did it. Instead it was ‘look away’.

Much like how I imagine a nato response would be if one member was attacked - it wouldn’t be an all out like for like retaliation would be an ‘oh dear collateral damage we won’t escalate and cause ww3’ likewise the theory of MAD would be a similar pathetic response by the rich in their bunkers ‘oh dear well we won’t retaliate and obliterate the earth we will save the planet and not bomb back’ (in other words keeping something for themselves.

Bigpinksweater · 13/10/2025 14:37

Pasly · 13/10/2025 14:35

Ah I took your previous post, which I responded to, in good faith but it clearly wasn't

Why isn’t it? More likely you just need an excuse to sidestep.