Hamas targeting groups and clans in Gaza

I expect it's casting shadow on his Nobel Peace Prize!

Bless the Orange Maniac for having a go, though 🤷🏻‍♀️

Hamas are not jihadist?

They hide it well.

I'm sorry then, I sounded very snippy there. I take the comment back.

Well, quite.

Terrifying.

Hamas is committed to fighting against Israel's attack on Palestinians and on creating a Palestinian state

OK... 🤔

blimey.

I didn't mean it to sound like that. I think the other poster knew what I meant!

Frankly, what's done the real damage is the useful idiots who have done their best to hamstring Israel from dealing properly with Hamas. And now look.

Most expert analyses, whichever "side" they support, will tell you that Hamas are not jihadist, not linked with IS or Al Q. So you are misunderstanding things there completely. If you google you will find a lot of info.

Hamas is committed to fighting against Israel's attack on Palestinians and on creating a Palestinian state. What it says and does varies, and there are elements within Hamas which may do or say different things. Hamas is funded by other ME states who support a 2 state solution and together there is goodwill and sufficient awareness of all the issues for the 2 state solution to be negotiated.

It is Israel which remains fiercely opposed, but the hope is that this is something which, with international help, could become a reality.

The press is not great at reporting on all this, but all the info is out there.

Your posting, and the posting of your group here, will have a huge effect and you post as per your mindset, so you are wrong, it will have an effect. How do you think propaganda is exploited in world wars? Normal people repeating stories thoughtlessly and endlessly which prop up the ideology of hatred and justifies fighting. Be careful what you wish for, think about who is really going to be getting the benefit and how much damage it might cause and what could be done to take things along a peaceful route.

And on the other hand, peaceniks stopped vietnam, so they say, so talking peace seems to work sometimes too.

Trump has said to the press that the killings are a bit like inter gang fighting in south america and he isn't fussed.
If you look for the AlJazeera article about "what is happening in gaza now", it gives more detailed information about who the different groups are, who they are funded by. It indicates that western press are over estimating numbers involved. Hamas has officially (ie from Qatar i think? as distinct from those on the ground) said that there will be no infighting between it and other political groups such as the PLO.
The truth is that all this is smokescreen though. Agreements were signed with Qatar and various others in Egypt, the EU leaders were all there - talking about what they will be doing to take control, rebuild - it is a "it is happening" situation and goodness only knows where it will take us.

Racial or religious hatred is to do with ignorance or extreme behaviour brought about by grooming based playing on people's trauma, lack of education, fear, etc.

So, while extremist Muslims may have wanted to attack the whole non Muslim world, the ME states, full of educated, not extremist, not groomed, not ignorant normal people will want to live in peace if it is a fair and reasonable 2 state agreement.

This war has not been about people, it has been about excessive power, control, resources, geopolitics. If it is made about people again, then people will live in peace.

No it's not pretty, @HellsBalls, but I'm confused about the "dressed as civilians" thing

Admittedly they lack the frequent masks, etc, which are popular with Hamas, but this isn't some legitimate army with uniforns - it's a rabble crazed with bloodlust looking for someone to kill

Never mind though, it'll enable some to pretend they're really Israelis

Plenty of footage of Hamas asserting control again in Gaza through violence, dressed as civilians.
It’s not pretty.

Yes, this is the problem really.

I'd like a two state solution with a viable Palestinian state, I suspect most people outside the extremes would. But nobody has yet managed to explain how that happens with jihadists at the helm, either because the Palestinian people have democratically chosen them or because they've taken power by force. A viable state requires leadership who care more about said state than they do about destroying another one. You do actually have to explain how it goes from jihadists to viable state, it doesn't magically fall into place.

None of which is to suggest this is the only problem that currently exists, or the only criticism that can be made of either party. But it is, as things stand, insurmountable.

Well, I’ve no idea what’s involved in hostage negotiations, especially when confronted with a terror group like Hamas, so I can’t say what’s fair and what’s not in those circumstances.

Hope that helps in terms of understanding the issues.

How kind to grace us with your insight.

Conveniently leaving out that last time Gazans chose their representatives to lead them it was an organization sworn to the destruction of Israel.

I want Palestinians to have self determination. But the right to self determination doesn't trump the right to life of your neighbor.

So no, unpalatable as it sounds, right now at this moment in time Palestinians can't choose their representatives. At some point in the future we can hope they have enough decent options to pick from. Then I'm sure they'll do the right thing.

@moremoreandthenstillmore ”if Palestinians have their own state and the surround ME states feel safe, and Israel has agreed and feels safe, then the war which has gone on for more than 100 years is no more.”

Deluded if you think Islamists would not try to destroy Israel. Look at the history since Israel was created. All the huge and safe countries deciding to eliminate Israel. Why?

Western stronger states stepping in and taking over decisions would be colonialism by definition.

In terms of choosing their own leaders, what should be on the table in fact is them choosing their own representatives in relation to a negotiation for a 2 state solution - once there is a 2 state solution then it removes the possibility of terrorism from any side, that is, if Palestinians have their own state and the surround ME states feel safe, and Israel has agreed and feels safe, then the war which has gone on for more than 100 years is no more.

Hope that helps in terms of understanding the issues.

A 2 state solution would be a fair and equal and reasonable split of what was Palestine, so looking at resources, etc needing to be fairly split, so yes it would be more than west bank and gaza but no it would not be river to the sea. If you look at the Mandate from 1922 (or 1921?) you will see the land at that point and the provisions which affected the Jewish settlers. Take that as a starting point and then look at what has happened since - the attacks from both Israelis and Palestinians over the years. This is all why splitting the land is seen now as the only way to get peace.

Israel is small in land terms, but it is extremely wealthy and has enormous resources, diamonds etc. The history is well known to the ME states surrounding and they have voted and so yes, it is a recipe for peace.

The history is the terrible fighting between peoples. This is what the region and the world wants to stop, or at least all those who support a 2 state solution. Not for all Jews to bugger off. I have Jewish heritage.

It has been two years and i think a lot of people inside and outside Israel wanted there to be more focus on release of hostages more quickly. Do you think that is fair?

I have never seen a poster say that Israel got what was coming, what a disgusting thing to say. People in real life such as UN said it didn't happen in a vacuum, that it was part of 100 year war, and that it was not always reported accurately. Which is not the same thing at all.

I don't think some of the posters here know much about what has gone on but are expressing very partisan views.

@inamarina ’Agree, yet some posters on MN insisted the Israeli government never cared about the hostages.’

Some posters think Israel got what was coming on October 7th.
Despite the yes of thousands of (useless) posts on this conflict, I doubt anyone has changed sides, or even moved from the previous beliefs to the middle ground.
I certainly have not.