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Conflict in the Middle East

Pro-Israel - I don't understand

259 replies

plsexplaintome · 08/10/2025 09:11

I've NCed for this as MN can be a vicious place lately, this thread may be a bad idea but hoping some genuine people will respond with their perspective.

Obviously there's a lot of nuance, but I don't understand how so many people seem to be pro Israel? My family are Jewish (I'm not as my mother isn't, but my dad's side are) and none of us support what Israel are doing. They say that as Jewish people, they don't want to see their people commit a genocide and push people out of their homes as this is exactly what's been done to Jewish people throughout history. And we don't think it's necessarily antisemitic to be against the actions of a government. (Though clearly some people are being antisemitic under the guise of defending Palestine)

Of course, Hamas has done awful things and I don't mean to say it's okay. But it seems like Palestine is fighting back after decades of oppression and violence committed against them by Israel. It's the actions of a desperate people - it's awful violence, but if it weren't for Israel, there would be no need for violence at all. You can't continually kick a dog and complain when it bites back?

I'm not looking for an argument so may not post again here as I don't want to argue withother opinions - I'm just hoping to hear from other perspectives. A lot of the media and public seem very pro Israel and I just don't understand. I'm not talking about protests here in the UK, as that's a whole other mess that's really muddying the waters and I'm not sure Palestinians would want these people speaking for them. If you are pro-Israel, please explain why as I feel I'm missing something here

OP posts:
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RealDiscussionNotHate · 08/10/2025 19:59

Comedycook · 08/10/2025 09:14

Oh is this another faux naive I have no idea what's going on, can anyone explain type thread....?

Yes.

"Of course, Hamas has done awful things and I don't mean to say it's okay. But it seems like Palestine is fighting back after decades of oppression and violence committed against them by Israel" 🙄

GiantTeddyIsTired · 08/10/2025 19:53

Beachtastic · 08/10/2025 19:41

How would you suggest they should have done this?

Exactly - in fact, they've done tremendously well to minimise civilian deaths - especially given Hamas embeds themselves in populated areas to use them as shields.

I guess me question is, what do you think Israel should have done? Just let Hamas murder and rape and kidnap and do nothing in response? Where does that end?

Do you just think all Jews should vacate the area? Do you think that that will be a net 'good' for the world? Having had a homeland of their own for less than 100 years, and even continuously under attack during that time, I can't imagine I'd want to give that up.

Because I don't. I wouldn't want to be a woman in the area in any country other than Israel. I wouldn't want to be gay, or any Christian either. Israel has to be tough, they are surrounded by people who want them gone, in a world that has done nothing but abuse them for 100s of years.

Beachtastic · 08/10/2025 19:41

Franpie · 08/10/2025 19:25

I understand the history of the conflict.

I understand the depth of feeling on both sides pre and post 7 October 2023 having visited Israel, the West Bank and Jordan and met and spoken to many Israelis, Palestinians, Jews and Muslims over the years.

But here’s what I don’t understand…..

If we are to believe Netanyahu and this current assault on Gaza is just to eradicate Hamas, then why can that not be done without the total destruction of the Gaza Strip and its people?

I fail to believe that with today’s highly sophisticated intelligence services (and Israel is world leading in that department) and all the US military might that Israel has access to, that they couldn’t overthrow Hamas much more covertly.

How would you suggest they should have done this?

inamarina · 08/10/2025 19:40

TicklishMauveSquid · 08/10/2025 19:03

The response from the pro-Palestinians to Oct 7th made me immediately staunchly pro-Israel. Never had an interest in the region or had a side before seeing that day’s events play out on the news, although having married into a Muslim family, I had been exposed to anti semitic tropes which I used to challenge but didn’t really take seriously.

I had grown up in a small town in southern England as an atheist before moving to London in my early 20s and hadn’t heard stuff like that before and it was long before social media. Have to say DH’s family are pro-Palestinian and have been on marches but he was of the same view as me after Oct 7th.

Shani Louk on the pick up truck with the savages abusing her already dead, defiled body, and Sheri Bibas’s facial expressions as she was surrounded, invoked a primal anger in me I hadn’t felt before tbh.

The more I’ve researched and learned over the over last two years, it’s only reinforced my position.

The Palestinian propaganda machine is unlike anything I have ever seen. How could terrorists who do the following be seen as heroic ‘resistance’ fighters or their actions be seen in anyway justified:

• cut women’s breasts off and shot them while raping them
• ram nails into young women’s vaginas then burn them alive
• take babies/toddlers as prisoners of war
• hack off a man’s head with a garden hoe while someone’s filming them do it and additionally sell another man’s decapitated head (that lad was 19) after storing it in an ice cream freezer
• stab whole families to death in their beds almost decapitating a 4 month old baby in one case
• kidnap, murder and mutilate a group of 3 teenage
boys then attack the ambulance their bodies the transported in
• rip apart the bodies of two men who’d taken a wrong turn and pose for pictures in front of a cheering crowd holding up their hearts and entrails to their mouths for pictures
• blow up restaurants, nightclubs and shopping malls via suicide bomber, hijack planes, shoot up buses, stabbing sprees, etc.
(the former 4 on the list were long before Oct 7th)

Every accusation is a confession is absolutely true in this case.

You could start with looking up the Arabic meaning of the Nakba OP, and why it was actually called that from the Arab perception,

Also the State of Jordan’s inception (which was 73% of the Mandate for Palestine), then the Balfour Declaration and the San Remo Resolution.

Then the Arab - Israel wars and the history of Palestinian terrorism since the Palestine Liberation Army was created in 1964 while Jordan and a Egypt were still illegally occupying the West Bank and Gaza respectively (since 1948) and you can wonder why a Palestinian State was never established during that time.

Then look into the current Palestinian national identity created in 1967 by Yasser Arafat, an Egyptian, who took the star off the Jordanian flag and declared it Palestinian.

Spoiler - the crux of it is that Arabs (who colonised the area themselves prior to it being Ottoman territory for 400 years and called Southern Syria, NOT an Arab State), believe they have a right to ALL the land and they refuse to accept acceeding even a tiny part of it for a Jewish State despite the Jews being indigenous to the land and it being the Jewish ancestral homeland having had a Jewish presence for 3000 years therefore creating all manner of false claims to stake their ownership of ALL the land and also against Israel to present themselves as the victim.

Research what Al Aqsa mosque was built on top of
and even more importantly listen to what the Palestinians say themselves about living in peace with Israel and what Palestinian children are taught in schools funded by international aid.

Ask yourself why Israel is the only country in the world that needs an Iron Dome and has a legal requirement for safe rooms in every home and public areas.

Where has all the billions of $ of aid gone and why Palestinians have a UN agency solely for them and why all Palestinians, no matter where they live or if they are citizens of other countries, are classed as perpetual refugees along with their descendants.

You may or may not reach the conclusion that the ‘Palestinian’ identity as a separate construct from Arab in the region was contrived to delegitimise Israel’s claim to the land and paint themselves as an oppressed people who just have no choice but to commit terrorist attacks against Israel.

Some might say it is the biggest scam in human history and horrifically innocent Palestinians have been brainwashed and suffered for generations, along with Israelis, for a massive anti semitic propaganda program spanning 77 years.

Edited

I think you’re mentioning several very good points.
I’ve been wondering, during the period between 1948 and 1969, have there ever been any attempts to separate a Palestinian identity from, let’s say, Jordanian?

Franpie · 08/10/2025 19:25

I understand the history of the conflict.

I understand the depth of feeling on both sides pre and post 7 October 2023 having visited Israel, the West Bank and Jordan and met and spoken to many Israelis, Palestinians, Jews and Muslims over the years.

But here’s what I don’t understand…..

If we are to believe Netanyahu and this current assault on Gaza is just to eradicate Hamas, then why can that not be done without the total destruction of the Gaza Strip and its people?

I fail to believe that with today’s highly sophisticated intelligence services (and Israel is world leading in that department) and all the US military might that Israel has access to, that they couldn’t overthrow Hamas much more covertly.

TicklishMauveSquid · 08/10/2025 19:03

The response from the pro-Palestinians to Oct 7th made me immediately staunchly pro-Israel. Never had an interest in the region or had a side before seeing that day’s events play out on the news, although having married into a Muslim family, I had been exposed to anti semitic tropes which I used to challenge but didn’t really take seriously.

I had grown up in a small town in southern England as an atheist before moving to London in my early 20s and hadn’t heard stuff like that before and it was long before social media. Have to say DH’s family are pro-Palestinian and have been on marches but he was of the same view as me after Oct 7th.

Shani Louk on the pick up truck with the savages abusing her already dead, defiled body, and Sheri Bibas’s facial expressions as she was surrounded, invoked a primal anger in me I hadn’t felt before tbh.

The more I’ve researched and learned over the over last two years, it’s only reinforced my position.

The Palestinian propaganda machine is unlike anything I have ever seen. How could terrorists who do the following be seen as heroic ‘resistance’ fighters or their actions be seen in anyway justified:

• cut women’s breasts off and shot them while raping them
• ram nails into young women’s vaginas then burn them alive
• take babies/toddlers as prisoners of war
• hack off a man’s head with a garden hoe while someone’s filming them do it and additionally sell another man’s decapitated head (that lad was 19) after storing it in an ice cream freezer
• stab whole families to death in their beds almost decapitating a 4 month old baby in one case
• kidnap, murder and mutilate a group of 3 teenage
boys then attack the ambulance their bodies the transported in
• rip apart the bodies of two men who’d taken a wrong turn and pose for pictures in front of a cheering crowd holding up their hearts and entrails to their mouths for pictures
• blow up restaurants, nightclubs and shopping malls via suicide bomber, hijack planes, shoot up buses, stabbing sprees, etc.
(the former 4 on the list were long before Oct 7th)

Every accusation is a confession is absolutely true in this case.

You could start with looking up the Arabic meaning of the Nakba OP, and why it was actually called that from the Arab perception,

Also the State of Jordan’s inception (which was 73% of the Mandate for Palestine), then the Balfour Declaration and the San Remo Resolution.

Then the Arab - Israel wars and the history of Palestinian terrorism since the Palestine Liberation Army was created in 1964 while Jordan and a Egypt were still illegally occupying the West Bank and Gaza respectively (since 1948) and you can wonder why a Palestinian State was never established during that time.

Then look into the current Palestinian national identity created in 1967 by Yasser Arafat, an Egyptian, who took the star off the Jordanian flag and declared it Palestinian.

Spoiler - the crux of it is that Arabs (who colonised the area themselves prior to it being Ottoman territory for 400 years and called Southern Syria, NOT an Arab State), believe they have a right to ALL the land and they refuse to accept acceeding even a tiny part of it for a Jewish State despite the Jews being indigenous to the land and it being the Jewish ancestral homeland having had a Jewish presence for 3000 years therefore creating all manner of false claims to stake their ownership of ALL the land and also against Israel to present themselves as the victim.

Research what Al Aqsa mosque was built on top of
and even more importantly listen to what the Palestinians say themselves about living in peace with Israel and what Palestinian children are taught in schools funded by international aid.

Ask yourself why Israel is the only country in the world that needs an Iron Dome and has a legal requirement for safe rooms in every home and public areas.

Where has all the billions of $ of aid gone and why Palestinians have a UN agency solely for them and why all Palestinians, no matter where they live or if they are citizens of other countries, are classed as perpetual refugees along with their descendants.

You may or may not reach the conclusion that the ‘Palestinian’ identity as a separate construct from Arab in the region was contrived to delegitimise Israel’s claim to the land and paint themselves as an oppressed people who just have no choice but to commit terrorist attacks against Israel.

Some might say it is the biggest scam in human history and horrifically innocent Palestinians have been brainwashed and suffered for generations, along with Israelis, for a massive anti semitic propaganda program spanning 77 years.

Beachtastic · 08/10/2025 17:58

Badabingyabadabadoo · 08/10/2025 17:16

Simple, Israelis are white and Palestinians are brown and muslim

Oh FFS. Many Israelis are not "white" (as if that matters!)

SharonEllis · 08/10/2025 17:56

Badabingyabadabadoo · 08/10/2025 17:16

Simple, Israelis are white and Palestinians are brown and muslim

Its impossible to think anyone believes this. So it must be deliberate misinformation.

LeticiaMorales · 08/10/2025 17:33

Badabingyabadabadoo · 08/10/2025 17:16

Simple, Israelis are white and Palestinians are brown and muslim

I wonder if some people actually believe this!

RoastSquash · 08/10/2025 17:33

Badabingyabadabadoo · 08/10/2025 17:16

Simple, Israelis are white and Palestinians are brown and muslim

Why lie like this? What does it achieve?

PurpleThistle7 · 08/10/2025 17:22

I appreciate the slightly less exhausting tone in this thread but I genuinely must live in a strange place as there is 0 support for Israel here and endless support for Palestine.

Shops have Palestinian flags in the windows, there are events and fundraising concerts and marches weekly - or more. My children are harassed at school for being Jewish and I’ve had to stop wearing anything identifying in public after a few horrible interactions.

I haven’t ever seen an Israeli flag or an Israeli event outside of a few vigils for the hostages that have stopped now. I can’t go to a protest for other issues without being surrounded by Palestinian flags (I go to pro choice and anti trump events and it’s everywhere). It sounds like I should move if there’s somewhere in the UK that isn’t like this - genuinely feels like it’s everywhere based on the reporting of all the protests yesterday but maybe not!

Badabingyabadabadoo · 08/10/2025 17:16

Simple, Israelis are white and Palestinians are brown and muslim

ginasevern · 08/10/2025 17:10

Many people are pro Israel because it is the only functionally democratic state in the Middle East. It is also the only majority non-Muslim country in the region and I believe that much of the West feels a greater affinity towards the Jewish faith than it does toward Islam. Which is somewhat ironic given the millennia of persecutions and pogroms it has systematically waged against the Jews. Another consideration is the fact that Jews have never been aggressors towards the West - either in terms of politics, terrorism or ideology. A lot of people also feel that the frenzied pro Palestine demonstrations are largely driven by anti seminitism.

plsexplaintome · 08/10/2025 16:57

SharonEllis · 08/10/2025 16:55

Why do you expect everyone else to do your research? This is a discussion forum.

I don't? I said these are things I want to look into more. Lots of people have posted saying I'm fake or being goady, so just trying to show that I'm paying attention and engaging in good faith. You really can't win with some people

OP posts:
Everexpanding · 08/10/2025 16:57

Blocking permis to leave that should say

Everexpanding · 08/10/2025 16:57

SharonEllis · 08/10/2025 16:54

Yes but why was Israel blockading - to stop Hamas importing weapons and its criminal operations. You have to go a step back and look at the choices Hamas was making.

What security reason did Israel have to justify people/children leaving to access cancer care often times not even in Israelbut even accessing care in other countries? Intentional cruelty is the answer

SharonEllis · 08/10/2025 16:57

plsexplaintome · 08/10/2025 16:44

Oh I see thank you, from Gaza but not from Palestine entirely

This is really basic. A second or two on google.

SharonEllis · 08/10/2025 16:55

plsexplaintome · 08/10/2025 16:50

Some things that have stood out to me/I want to look into more:

  • Hamas not adequately protecting its people
  • Availability of resources- ie if Israel is blocking aid and access to resources, why can't neighbouring countries provide this
  • What was the legitimate setup supposed to be in terms of Israel-Palestine relations? Someone said they support Palestine's right to request more land and resources etc but not through Hamas. What were these supposed to be? They clearly weren't functioning?

Why do you expect everyone else to do your research? This is a discussion forum.

Alittlefeedbackwouldbenice · 08/10/2025 16:55

And if it's of interest, with the blockade banned, dangerous things like paper and passata, the IDF was simultaneously giving Hamas materials to make the rockets. A lot of them are made from recycled bombs that Israel dropped on Gaza. So ironically the one thing Israel could have done to reduce the number of rockets being constructed, was to stop bombing Gaza. Instead they carried on bombing them and banned passata.

SharonEllis · 08/10/2025 16:54

Everexpanding · 08/10/2025 16:38

Israel was blockading the required equipment @SharonEllis

4 February 2019 – After being diagnosed with cancer, patients in Gaza may often have to wait for months before being able to receive treatment. Getting a permit to access the health care needed outside can be a stressful and unpredictable process, and many apply multiple times before being able to exit. Even then, some patients are never able to secure the permits they need to access care.
The ability of Gaza’s hospitals to provide adequate diagnosis and treatment to cancer patients is severely limited due to chronic shortages of medicines and lack of medical equipment. Nuclear medicine scanning needed for staging cancers, radiotherapy equipment and some specialized surgeries are unavailable. More than half of essential chemotherapy drugs were at less than a month’s supply throughout 2018.

Yes but why was Israel blockading - to stop Hamas importing weapons and its criminal operations. You have to go a step back and look at the choices Hamas was making.

Everexpanding · 08/10/2025 16:53

Shameful

inamarina · 08/10/2025 16:53

Everexpanding · 08/10/2025 16:50

I don’t think you order them through medical companies, official channels

You know what I mean, Hamas managed perfectly well to import things they needed.

Everexpanding · 08/10/2025 16:52

deflection @inamarina

Everexpanding · 08/10/2025 16:50

inamarina · 08/10/2025 16:47

How did Hamas manage to import the building matrials for hundreds of miles of tunnels?

I don’t think you order them through medical companies, official channels

plsexplaintome · 08/10/2025 16:50

Some things that have stood out to me/I want to look into more:

  • Hamas not adequately protecting its people
  • Availability of resources- ie if Israel is blocking aid and access to resources, why can't neighbouring countries provide this
  • What was the legitimate setup supposed to be in terms of Israel-Palestine relations? Someone said they support Palestine's right to request more land and resources etc but not through Hamas. What were these supposed to be? They clearly weren't functioning?
OP posts: