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Conflict in the Middle East

Pro-Israel - I don't understand

259 replies

plsexplaintome · 08/10/2025 09:11

I've NCed for this as MN can be a vicious place lately, this thread may be a bad idea but hoping some genuine people will respond with their perspective.

Obviously there's a lot of nuance, but I don't understand how so many people seem to be pro Israel? My family are Jewish (I'm not as my mother isn't, but my dad's side are) and none of us support what Israel are doing. They say that as Jewish people, they don't want to see their people commit a genocide and push people out of their homes as this is exactly what's been done to Jewish people throughout history. And we don't think it's necessarily antisemitic to be against the actions of a government. (Though clearly some people are being antisemitic under the guise of defending Palestine)

Of course, Hamas has done awful things and I don't mean to say it's okay. But it seems like Palestine is fighting back after decades of oppression and violence committed against them by Israel. It's the actions of a desperate people - it's awful violence, but if it weren't for Israel, there would be no need for violence at all. You can't continually kick a dog and complain when it bites back?

I'm not looking for an argument so may not post again here as I don't want to argue withother opinions - I'm just hoping to hear from other perspectives. A lot of the media and public seem very pro Israel and I just don't understand. I'm not talking about protests here in the UK, as that's a whole other mess that's really muddying the waters and I'm not sure Palestinians would want these people speaking for them. If you are pro-Israel, please explain why as I feel I'm missing something here

OP posts:
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Nyungnyung · 08/10/2025 23:08

SameOldHill · 08/10/2025 20:46

Spoiler - the crux of it is that Arabs (who colonised the area themselves prior to it being Ottoman territory for 400 years and called Southern Syria, NOT an Arab State), believe they have a right to ALL the land and they refuse to accept acceeding even a tiny part of it for a Jewish State despite the Jews being indigenous to the land and it being the Jewish ancestral homeland having had a Jewish presence for 3000 years

I don’t understand this argument at all. None of it matters. It doesn’t matter whether the Jews were indigenous to the land a long long time ago. It doesn’t matter that Arabs colonised the area before or that it went to the Ottomans. The Anglo Saxons came over to England about the same time. So what?
It doesn’t matter that there are lots of Arab states (they’re not a monolith). It doesn’t matter that there was no official state called Palestine. Statehood is after all just a means to an end.

What matters is that there were people living there, and that those local communities were displaced. Whether they felt Palestinian, Jordanian or whatever, they didn’t deserve to be forcibly expelled.

And nor do the Israelis who were born there now. They don’t deserve to be forced out.

There is no solution. Personally I’d like to see a one state solution. Equal rights for all. Take away the law imposing any religion and allow international right to return for 1948 refugees. Whoever is there now stays. But that’s hopelessly naive.

I don’t believe in God. I don’t believe God promised the land to anyone. If he did then why doesn’t he appear now and tell us all? It’s just about people having a safe place to live and enjoying equal rights.

Can we also apply this to all of the theocratic authoritarian states surrounding Israel?

Twiglets1 · 08/10/2025 23:06

There are people that support you @Ayoopkid

In a minority on this forum and we get personal attacks just for supporting Israel so that gives us a taste of what it must be like to be Jewish in the UK at the moment.

But we hear what happened on 7/10, we feel it in our bones and we stand with Israel.

RealDiscussionNotHate · 08/10/2025 23:05

Beachtastic · 08/10/2025 23:03

the things I have been reading on this terrible forum have devastated me

As a non-Jew, I want you to know that I and many others share your anguish 💗

Me too. I'm very concerned about the treatment of Jewish people and the rise in antisemitism in the UK and other countries.

The soundbites and lack of long term history and knowledge of many is frightening.

Beachtastic · 08/10/2025 23:03

the things I have been reading on this terrible forum have devastated me

As a non-Jew, I want you to know that I and many others share your anguish 💗

Ayoopkid · 08/10/2025 23:01

TicklishMauveSquid · 08/10/2025 19:03

The response from the pro-Palestinians to Oct 7th made me immediately staunchly pro-Israel. Never had an interest in the region or had a side before seeing that day’s events play out on the news, although having married into a Muslim family, I had been exposed to anti semitic tropes which I used to challenge but didn’t really take seriously.

I had grown up in a small town in southern England as an atheist before moving to London in my early 20s and hadn’t heard stuff like that before and it was long before social media. Have to say DH’s family are pro-Palestinian and have been on marches but he was of the same view as me after Oct 7th.

Shani Louk on the pick up truck with the savages abusing her already dead, defiled body, and Sheri Bibas’s facial expressions as she was surrounded, invoked a primal anger in me I hadn’t felt before tbh.

The more I’ve researched and learned over the over last two years, it’s only reinforced my position.

The Palestinian propaganda machine is unlike anything I have ever seen. How could terrorists who do the following be seen as heroic ‘resistance’ fighters or their actions be seen in anyway justified:

• cut women’s breasts off and shot them while raping them
• ram nails into young women’s vaginas then burn them alive
• take babies/toddlers as prisoners of war
• hack off a man’s head with a garden hoe while someone’s filming them do it and additionally sell another man’s decapitated head (that lad was 19) after storing it in an ice cream freezer
• stab whole families to death in their beds almost decapitating a 4 month old baby in one case
• kidnap, murder and mutilate a group of 3 teenage
boys then attack the ambulance their bodies the transported in
• rip apart the bodies of two men who’d taken a wrong turn and pose for pictures in front of a cheering crowd holding up their hearts and entrails to their mouths for pictures
• blow up restaurants, nightclubs and shopping malls via suicide bomber, hijack planes, shoot up buses, stabbing sprees, etc.
(the former 4 on the list were long before Oct 7th)

Every accusation is a confession is absolutely true in this case.

You could start with looking up the Arabic meaning of the Nakba OP, and why it was actually called that from the Arab perception,

Also the State of Jordan’s inception (which was 73% of the Mandate for Palestine), then the Balfour Declaration and the San Remo Resolution.

Then the Arab - Israel wars and the history of Palestinian terrorism since the Palestine Liberation Army was created in 1964 while Jordan and a Egypt were still illegally occupying the West Bank and Gaza respectively (since 1948) and you can wonder why a Palestinian State was never established during that time.

Then look into the current Palestinian national identity created in 1967 by Yasser Arafat, an Egyptian, who took the star off the Jordanian flag and declared it Palestinian.

Spoiler - the crux of it is that Arabs (who colonised the area themselves prior to it being Ottoman territory for 400 years and called Southern Syria, NOT an Arab State), believe they have a right to ALL the land and they refuse to accept acceeding even a tiny part of it for a Jewish State despite the Jews being indigenous to the land and it being the Jewish ancestral homeland having had a Jewish presence for 3000 years therefore creating all manner of false claims to stake their ownership of ALL the land and also against Israel to present themselves as the victim.

Research what Al Aqsa mosque was built on top of
and even more importantly listen to what the Palestinians say themselves about living in peace with Israel and what Palestinian children are taught in schools funded by international aid.

Ask yourself why Israel is the only country in the world that needs an Iron Dome and has a legal requirement for safe rooms in every home and public areas.

Where has all the billions of $ of aid gone and why Palestinians have a UN agency solely for them and why all Palestinians, no matter where they live or if they are citizens of other countries, are classed as perpetual refugees along with their descendants.

You may or may not reach the conclusion that the ‘Palestinian’ identity as a separate construct from Arab in the region was contrived to delegitimise Israel’s claim to the land and paint themselves as an oppressed people who just have no choice but to commit terrorist attacks against Israel.

Some might say it is the biggest scam in human history and horrifically innocent Palestinians have been brainwashed and suffered for generations, along with Israelis, for a massive anti semitic propaganda program spanning 77 years.

Edited

Your post made me cry. I am new here and have my own story. But the things I have been reading on this terrible forum have devastated me. I believe that either people are weak and brainwashed or worse, they just hate Jews and they try to create a justification or reason. I want to applaud you for this comment, it is the first truth I have read about this conflict and restored my faith that things will be ok for the Jews and we will not be waved away to our deaths by our neighbours like we were in 1936, or in my case in the early 70’s from an Arab country. I wonder when the truth will emerge and hope it is not after Israel’s doom. Thank you.

Nyungnyung · 08/10/2025 22:57

SameOldHill · 08/10/2025 20:46

Spoiler - the crux of it is that Arabs (who colonised the area themselves prior to it being Ottoman territory for 400 years and called Southern Syria, NOT an Arab State), believe they have a right to ALL the land and they refuse to accept acceeding even a tiny part of it for a Jewish State despite the Jews being indigenous to the land and it being the Jewish ancestral homeland having had a Jewish presence for 3000 years

I don’t understand this argument at all. None of it matters. It doesn’t matter whether the Jews were indigenous to the land a long long time ago. It doesn’t matter that Arabs colonised the area before or that it went to the Ottomans. The Anglo Saxons came over to England about the same time. So what?
It doesn’t matter that there are lots of Arab states (they’re not a monolith). It doesn’t matter that there was no official state called Palestine. Statehood is after all just a means to an end.

What matters is that there were people living there, and that those local communities were displaced. Whether they felt Palestinian, Jordanian or whatever, they didn’t deserve to be forcibly expelled.

And nor do the Israelis who were born there now. They don’t deserve to be forced out.

There is no solution. Personally I’d like to see a one state solution. Equal rights for all. Take away the law imposing any religion and allow international right to return for 1948 refugees. Whoever is there now stays. But that’s hopelessly naive.

I don’t believe in God. I don’t believe God promised the land to anyone. If he did then why doesn’t he appear now and tell us all? It’s just about people having a safe place to live and enjoying equal rights.

Have you considered all of the jews that were forcibly removed from the surrounding countries and had no choice but to move to Israel - and would not be safe living in any surrounding country?

Ayoopkid · 08/10/2025 22:54

Franpie · 08/10/2025 21:04

No, I wasn’t using it as a loose term and I don’t believe that it is a loose term anyway.

Of the Palestinians I met in Jordan, 1 lives in the West Bank and commutes daily into Jordan to work, 3 others were born and bred in Gaza but had fled the country almost 20 years ago. All had family still living in Gaza. 1 of them, his 2 sisters were killed in the maternity hospital bombing.

Nothing like asking a Welsh person about French policies.

I don’t believe a word of this. Mainly due to the person commuting to a whole other country to work. Where do they commute from in the WB? Which border crossing with Jordan? You are lying to make a point. By the way, in Jordan did you visit a synagogue or meet any Jewish people?

RealDiscussionNotHate · 08/10/2025 22:42

inamarina · 08/10/2025 20:53

Possibly that lovely one about the river and the sea.
I’ve mentioned it elsewhere - someone I know on FB, a typical “be kind”, love and rainbows person, with a mild attitude and friendly smile, put a “From the river to the sea” banner on their profile picture not long after October 7th.
I did wonder if they actually knew what that meant.

That type usually actually know very little history but lots of 'soundbites' and 'slogans' dim and useful to some

RealDiscussionNotHate · 08/10/2025 22:39

Imtootired · 08/10/2025 14:21

I’m not exaggerating when I say that this is one of the most stupid and ignorant things I’ve ever read online. You consider Palestine a state? In what way? The whole conflict is based on the fact that they don’t have a state and they are occupied by Israel. And the reason it’s been declared a genocide but every major human rights organisation is because Israel is killing civilians and not soldiers because Gaza is not a nation state and doesn’t have a military like a nation state would have. If you want to be this ignorant about the basic facts of a conflict in which thousands of people are dying then don’t bother commenting at all. Really bizarre comment.

Don't you realise that they have turned down their own state numerous times, they wanted all the land and no Israel .... problematic that was to many other countries and rightly so! Now if they actually agreed a state from the beginning, no missiles and spent money on making a great state and a brilliant one for the people..... but alas they didn't, so here we are still moaning no state despite turning a state down numerous times, rinse repeat

Beachtastic · 08/10/2025 22:38

SharonEllis · 08/10/2025 22:23

I wasn't here straight after 7 Oct but its something ee see on these threads,often like a throwaway remark. It defies belief and just shows how little people understand about Israel and how deeply they have bought into the propaganda.

It's sick, like someone saying "acid gave Katie Piper the excuse she needed for cosmetic surgery." And yet so many people come out with it.

SharonEllis · 08/10/2025 22:23

Beachtastic · 08/10/2025 22:12

@SharonEllis Do you remember that vile thread shortly after 7 Oct declaring that it had "given Israel the excuse it needed"? It seems to have been deleted now, but OMG it ran and ran as though this was a rational and humane response.

I wasn't here straight after 7 Oct but its something ee see on these threads,often like a throwaway remark. It defies belief and just shows how little people understand about Israel and how deeply they have bought into the propaganda.

EasternStandard · 08/10/2025 22:20

inamarina · 08/10/2025 22:04

Interesting how you say posters on here minimise the situation of people in Gaza, and then you go and reduce October 7th to a “gift” to Netanyahu and his cabinet.

I agree. What an awful way to describe the 7th October Hamas atrocities.

inamarina · 08/10/2025 22:13

SharonEllis · 08/10/2025 22:09

I don't know how you can see the horror of 7 October or the war as a gift to anyone. Or what fantasy world you are living in that you think the Jews would have their rights protected in one state that they did not control. Here we are again, delegitimising the state of Israel.

I’ve seen it too many times before, people describing October 7th as a gift to Netanyahu, just what the Israeli government needed as an excuse, and so on. It’s so cynical.

Beachtastic · 08/10/2025 22:12

@SharonEllis Do you remember that vile thread shortly after 7 Oct declaring that it had "given Israel the excuse it needed"? It seems to have been deleted now, but OMG it ran and ran as though this was a rational and humane response.

SharonEllis · 08/10/2025 22:09

SSRI · 08/10/2025 21:56

THIS

I’m truly baffled at the number of people on here who support Israel’s actions against Gazans and don’t see the true goal of ‘Greater Israel’ as Netenyahu and most of his cabinet want. 7th Oct was a political gift to them - no way would Bibi still be in power, he’s managed to put off mutiple court appearances with his war mongering.

Posters minimising the catastrophic situation of the humans (they are humans even if you disagree with elements of their culture) living in Gaza must magically have avoided the apocalyptic photos showing before and after. It’s the absolute destruction of the land with zero pretence of avoiding civilian casualties or civic building destruction.

Israel owe it to Palestine to make it work. One state with equal rights for all.

I don't know how you can see the horror of 7 October or the war as a gift to anyone. Or what fantasy world you are living in that you think the Jews would have their rights protected in one state that they did not control. Here we are again, delegitimising the state of Israel.

inamarina · 08/10/2025 22:04

SSRI · 08/10/2025 21:56

THIS

I’m truly baffled at the number of people on here who support Israel’s actions against Gazans and don’t see the true goal of ‘Greater Israel’ as Netenyahu and most of his cabinet want. 7th Oct was a political gift to them - no way would Bibi still be in power, he’s managed to put off mutiple court appearances with his war mongering.

Posters minimising the catastrophic situation of the humans (they are humans even if you disagree with elements of their culture) living in Gaza must magically have avoided the apocalyptic photos showing before and after. It’s the absolute destruction of the land with zero pretence of avoiding civilian casualties or civic building destruction.

Israel owe it to Palestine to make it work. One state with equal rights for all.

Interesting how you say posters on here minimise the situation of people in Gaza, and then you go and reduce October 7th to a “gift” to Netanyahu and his cabinet.

Beachtastic · 08/10/2025 22:03

Israel owe it to Palestine to make it work. One state with equal rights for all.

Are you kidding? Why does Israel owe it to Palestine, and not vice versa? And how would they suddenly live happily alongside each other? Many of the victims of 7/10 discovered that the Gazans they had been helping were actually Hamas informants who had been checking out where everyone would be that day.

SSRI · 08/10/2025 21:56

SameOldHill · 08/10/2025 20:46

Spoiler - the crux of it is that Arabs (who colonised the area themselves prior to it being Ottoman territory for 400 years and called Southern Syria, NOT an Arab State), believe they have a right to ALL the land and they refuse to accept acceeding even a tiny part of it for a Jewish State despite the Jews being indigenous to the land and it being the Jewish ancestral homeland having had a Jewish presence for 3000 years

I don’t understand this argument at all. None of it matters. It doesn’t matter whether the Jews were indigenous to the land a long long time ago. It doesn’t matter that Arabs colonised the area before or that it went to the Ottomans. The Anglo Saxons came over to England about the same time. So what?
It doesn’t matter that there are lots of Arab states (they’re not a monolith). It doesn’t matter that there was no official state called Palestine. Statehood is after all just a means to an end.

What matters is that there were people living there, and that those local communities were displaced. Whether they felt Palestinian, Jordanian or whatever, they didn’t deserve to be forcibly expelled.

And nor do the Israelis who were born there now. They don’t deserve to be forced out.

There is no solution. Personally I’d like to see a one state solution. Equal rights for all. Take away the law imposing any religion and allow international right to return for 1948 refugees. Whoever is there now stays. But that’s hopelessly naive.

I don’t believe in God. I don’t believe God promised the land to anyone. If he did then why doesn’t he appear now and tell us all? It’s just about people having a safe place to live and enjoying equal rights.

THIS

I’m truly baffled at the number of people on here who support Israel’s actions against Gazans and don’t see the true goal of ‘Greater Israel’ as Netenyahu and most of his cabinet want. 7th Oct was a political gift to them - no way would Bibi still be in power, he’s managed to put off mutiple court appearances with his war mongering.

Posters minimising the catastrophic situation of the humans (they are humans even if you disagree with elements of their culture) living in Gaza must magically have avoided the apocalyptic photos showing before and after. It’s the absolute destruction of the land with zero pretence of avoiding civilian casualties or civic building destruction.

Israel owe it to Palestine to make it work. One state with equal rights for all.

Beachtastic · 08/10/2025 21:47

Franpie · 08/10/2025 21:32

No, it’s what stops us from hearing them.

I wish we did. It was interesting to read what you said about the cost of getting out. I have struggled with understanding with why anyone would choose to remain somewhere like that, with Hamas in charge.

PurpleThistle7 · 08/10/2025 21:38

Alittlefeedbackwouldbenice · 08/10/2025 21:23

I totally agree, and I'm a Christian woman.

In fact there's a lovely little church that I keep in touch with, that's thriving, in Damascus.

Saying that, I'd move to Jordan as my first choice. I wouldn't have any concerns about that. It's easier and safer to be a Christian in Jordan than Israel, more freedom, guaranteed political representations. More integration in Jordan where Christians are highly regarded (and there are many more of them). Less harassment.

Wouldn’t be safe for me but before all this I’d always wanted to visit Jordan. Seen so many gorgeous holiday snaps from Petra so it was on my list for years.

Franpie · 08/10/2025 21:32

Beachtastic · 08/10/2025 21:24

I'm not sure the lack of "proper independent press" is what keeps them silent, to be honest!

No, it’s what stops us from hearing them.

Franpie · 08/10/2025 21:31

Alittlefeedbackwouldbenice · 08/10/2025 21:23

I totally agree, and I'm a Christian woman.

In fact there's a lovely little church that I keep in touch with, that's thriving, in Damascus.

Saying that, I'd move to Jordan as my first choice. I wouldn't have any concerns about that. It's easier and safer to be a Christian in Jordan than Israel, more freedom, guaranteed political representations. More integration in Jordan where Christians are highly regarded (and there are many more of them). Less harassment.

100% agree. I love Jordan and would live there without hesitation.

The town of Madaba is what the entire Middle East should be striving for. A melting pot of religions and cultures living harmoniously and respectfully as one community.

Beachtastic · 08/10/2025 21:24

Franpie · 08/10/2025 21:20

It is terrible. But then proper independent press isn’t allowed into Gaza so who knows what the Palestinians that live there might think.

I do know that it did cost a lot of money to be smuggled out of Gaza. There were apparently Egyptians traffickers who could arrange to get you out for somewhere in the region of US$10k per person before 7/10/23. It’s impossible now I believe. That sort of money is way beyond what most can afford so most were trapped.

I'm not sure the lack of "proper independent press" is what keeps them silent, to be honest!

Alittlefeedbackwouldbenice · 08/10/2025 21:23

Franpie · 08/10/2025 20:12

I wouldn't want to be a woman in the area in any country other than Israel. I wouldn't want to be gay, or any Christian either.

Have you actually been to any countries “in the area”? As female Christian, I have visited many and worked in a couple and have always felt safe and respected.

ETA: I also don’t why pro-Israel supporters jump to the assumption that anyone who opposes the destruction of Gaza wants the eradication of Israel as a country. I haven’t seen or heard anyone suggest that Israel should just disappear.

Edited

I totally agree, and I'm a Christian woman.

In fact there's a lovely little church that I keep in touch with, that's thriving, in Damascus.

Saying that, I'd move to Jordan as my first choice. I wouldn't have any concerns about that. It's easier and safer to be a Christian in Jordan than Israel, more freedom, guaranteed political representations. More integration in Jordan where Christians are highly regarded (and there are many more of them). Less harassment.

Insanityisnotastrategy · 08/10/2025 21:23

I can't help feeling that some people apply the principles of social workers/education welfare officers to a brutal Middle Eastern culture they do not understand.

Spot on.

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