Has Trump's pressure worked?

Same

How could you possibly know that I’m only focusing on this one conflict?

It’s very strange to be accused of antisemitism simply for highlighting the scale and urgency of the humanitarian crisis in Gaza. I’ve also been involved in supporting Ukraine- and never once was I accused of being anti-Russian.

It isn't 'justification' it is trying to explain to you that you focusing on this one conflict whe there have been so many others equally as horrific is odd.

It seems to indicate that it isn't conflicts and civilian deaths that horrify you, it is when Israel is involved.

Isolated incidents don’t represent the majority of protesters. The vast majority of UK marches have been focused on humanitarian issues- civilians being killed, hospitals and schools bombed, children suffering. Highlighting rare extreme examples as if they define everyone misrepresents what most people are trying to do: call for an end to the suffering.

Someone said:
“most protesters are silent on Hamas and attack anyone who criticises them”.

This conflation with support for senseless and disproportionate killing with support for Hamas is ridiculous.

Is that in reference to my post? I did not say ‘most’ meaning nearly all. I said I have seen ‘many’ people online also supporting Hamas. Are you purposely confusing this?

Show me all the banners on the protests demanding the release of the hostages and condemning Hamas. And explain why you can’t want these things AND want an end to the war? They are not mutually exclusive.

On the 8th October 2023, just hours after a terrible massacre and before Israel had even retaliated, UK activists began organising the London demonstration for the 14th October. These are the people we are concerned about because you can’t explain away this behaviour as reacting to a ‘genocide’.

@Wedonttalkaboutboris here is a banner from today. Im not trawling the internet but there are loads of images like this if you bother to look. I honestly don't know how anyone can pretend you have not seen this stuff. It is not possible.

Do you remembet the women convicted for wearing images of hamas terrorists parachuting i nto Israel on 7 October?

You will have heard the chants, 'From the River to the sea', 'Houthis, Houthis make us proud', 'Resistance is justified'.

How?
I honestly have no idea the point I’m supposedly side stepping. This is ridiculous!

You say you’re not justifying the deaths of children, but if pointing out that similar things happen elsewhere is being used to excuse or downplay what’s happening in Gaza, that is exactly the effect. Noting “this happens in other conflicts” doesn’t change that tens of thousands of children are being killed right now- it’s still a justification in practice.

@Wedonttalkaboutboris You are sidestepping the point I am making and I think you know it.

“And people demand proof of support for Hamas on the marches when it is there for them to see every week.”

I’ve also never seen any widespread support for Hamas on marches and you’re yet to share any proof. According to one poster earlier today ‘most’ Palestinian supporters are also Hamas. This is simply not true.

They have though. I’ve been accused of being anti-Semitic and I have ‘simply’ posted about the humanitarian crisis. It’s being used as a tool to try to shut people down. Unfortunately this humanitarian crisis has been caused by Israel’s disproportionate response. I have also repeatedly condemned Hamas.

Showing concern for Palestinian civilians isn’t the same as hating Jewish people or ignoring other crises. Gaza is experiencing one of the worst humanitarian disasters in recent memory- millions displaced, hospitals and schools bombed, tens of thousands of children killed or injured. Criticising government or military actions is about compassion for civilians, not hatred toward a people. It’s entirely possible to condemn antisemitism and speak up for Palestinians at the same time.

@CrossChecking ”What is 'anti West' is sitting back and watching as Israel make a mockery of International law, smear the UN, smear the international courts.”

The West is never, ever going to forsake Israel. Not after the genocide (note: real genocide of 6 million Jews murdered), or the murderous terrorist atrocities carried out by Islamist extremists both against Israel and the West, not to mention the numerous wars fought by Israel to protect itself. The West needs Israel to survive, and survive it will.
I hope the ceasefire holds and people can live in peace once more, after this absolutely pointless conflict.

UK jobs before innocent people would also apply to 95% of all solar panels installed in the UK given that they are manufactured using concentration camps of Uighurs in China.

Or the majority of EV batteries manufactured using slave labour mining cobalt in the Congo.

Or buying gas from UAE or holidaying in Dubai despite the UAE funding the war in Sudan.

Lastly are you happy to weaken UK military defence capabilities by the UK getting excluded from the F35 program?

You can keep repeating that it is anti West to want sanctions on murderous regimes all you like but it doesn't make it true.

What is 'anti West' is sitting back and watching as Israel make a mockery of International law, smear the UN, smear the international courts.

UK jobs before the lives of innocent people. At least someone is happy to admit that the UK are profiting off this genocide. The idea that someone is profiting off killing kids so it may as well be us doesn't align with any of my values and I will happily be called anti Western values if that is what that means.

It's not a question of hating the protesters and the protests but a very real concern about how a minority of these protesters will become the terrorists of tomorrow and for a larger number to become the terrorist sympathisers of tomorrow.

We have already seen Palestine Action attack and damage RAF aircraft as well as attacking a female police officer with a sledgehammer and hospitalising her. It is a very small step to become further radicalised and end up killing people.

We have also seen hundreds of people express support for Palestine Action, which is a designated terrorist group. It's a very small step for these people to support or at least sympathise with the killing of day a "hated figure" (such as Farage ).

Nobody has ever said anyone is antisemitic for 'simply' posting about the humanitarian crisis.

This is so disingenuous. How many times do we have to explain this?

What is almost certainly motivated by antisemitism is the obsessive focus on Israel, as if Israel was uniquely evil, to the exclusion of all other humanitarian crises,wars and human rights issues. Its simply unarguable that no other issue generates as much media attention, social media traffic and posts on mumsnet. It is accompanied by a staggering lack of empathy for the experience of Jews in this country. And also an incredible lack of curiosity about the political forces that people are supporting. Islamist terrorism is a real & present danger to all of us.
2 brave Jewish people lost their lives to it this week.
And people demand proof of support for Hamas on the marches when it is there for them to see every week. But they choose not to look, and ignore the Hamas propaganda machine tjat taps into antisemitic tropes. How many times have I and others been insinuated that we are paid by Israel? What is the obsessive focus on babies about? Babies suffer in all conflicts but they take on totemic significance in this one alongside graphic images displayed on marches. Surely you see what this is about?

There are many well.meaning people on the marches but I wish the death of two Jewish people here would encourage at least a little reflection.

Are you seriously telling me that you are unaware of the numerous times that Naik Gorbani has been physically attacked at the Pro Pal London protests for holding up a sign that simply stated Hamas are Terrorists (which is the official UK government policy):

Or crowds supporting Houthi terrorist attacks on shipping ?

Agree Boris I advocate for both Yemen and Sudan elsewhere in spaces where people have the historical knowledge and understand the sensitivity with people who genuinely care.

I would never do it on CITME as the majority of the people that mention them do not do because they care but as some soft of shield for IDF actions and a gotcha....

The lack sanctions by the British Gov are exactly the same lack of sanctions against China for their persecution of Uighurs or against Pakistani for the ethnic cleansing of 1.5 million Afghan refugees. They don't because sometimes economic pragmatism and national interest trumps ethics.

What exactly do you think would if the UK started refusing to send F35 parts to Israel? The manufacturing of the parts would shift back to the US and the UK would get kicked out of the F35 programme, resulting in a significant loss of UK jobs and a significant weakening of UK military capability.

I recognise that with your anti UK views that you don't care about UK jobs or UK defence capabilities but I can assure you that the majority of British voters do.

This is exactly the type of anti Western terrorist sympathising ideology that worries me going forward.

Update: someone has genuinely just said to me that I’ve been ‘very outspoken about my loathing for Israel’.

Anyone who reads these threads will know my posts have always focused on the humanitarian side- especially the children who are suffering. I’ve criticised policies and military actions that have caused mass civilian harm. But apparently that’s the same as ‘loathing Israel’ now.

For people who hate the protests and protesters so much they seem to know an awful lot about them and what they think.

Please quote where I have been ‘very outspoken about my loathing for Israel’.

You also have no idea what actions I have taken regarding other conflicts and genocides going on around the world.

Thousands marched in Dublin today so if you are worried you will have nothing to mock and complain about anymore on a Saturday afternoon you can start on them.

Would hate you to have nothing to post about.

But it’s not Hamas or Hezbollah who’ve bombed, starved and displaced over 2 million Palestinians.

Do you have any actual evidence for that claim? The idea that “most protesters are silent on Hamas and attack anyone who criticises them” just isn’t reflected in what’s actually happening here. UK marches have been explicitly about ending the bombing and starvation of civilians in Gaza- not about supporting armed groups. Even the Met have confirmed the vast majority have been peaceful and lawful.