Please or to access all these features

Conflict in the Middle East

Has Trump's pressure worked?

111 replies

mids2019 · 04/10/2025 05:31

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cn0xvnxqj2xt

So it looks like Hamas have agreed to free hostages! I guess being holed up in Gaza with no hope of winning does tend to sharpen even the most suicidal terrorist.

I start have agreed to ramp down their military campaign. I don't know if this news is enough to get the pro Palestinian loons to not go out protesting this weekend but it certainly is significant.

The question of disarming is the key one for Hamas and I wonder if Israel were premature in winding down military activity when they had already gained the concession of hostage release?.

Live updates: Trump tells Israel to stop bombing Gaza as Hamas agrees to release hostages

The US president says he believes Hamas is "ready for a lasting peace", as the group seeks further negotiations on his peace proposal.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cn0xvnxqj2xt

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
SharonEllis · 05/10/2025 08:20

I'm sure you know you can read 2 articles a week for free but here is the Syed article anyway published yesterday in The Times. What is so very interesting is the response he gets from the wider crowd compared to those who carry antisemitic and pro Hamas placards or chant the chants on marches. Have we ever heard of them being rounded on by the marchers or turfed out of the marches? I don't think so. Because they are central to them. Here is the article:

I approach a group of three women — perhaps in their fifties, brown-skinned, British accents — and one of them recognises me: “You are that journalist Matthew Syed.” Yes, can you talk? They assent so I ask what I take to be a fair-minded question to elicit their position and why they are here. “Who do you blame for what is unfolding in Gaza? Do you think Hamas bears any responsibility?”
For the avoidance of doubt, this was the extent of my question. I didn’t say anything else about Hamas: that their founding charter is committed to the killing of Jews; that they have consistently said that they wish to commit October 7-style atrocities again and again; that they are funded by Iran, which wishes to expunge Israel from the pages of history; that the mullahs have sometimes insinuated that Muslims have a duty to kill Jews wherever they are found — perhaps, who knows, the inspiration for a man called Jihad, born to a Syrian father who described the Hamas attackers as “men of God on Earth”, attempting mass murder in Manchester.

No, all I asked was: “Is Hamas partly responsible?” Here’s what happened next, as their friendly faces turned to, well, something else. “Go away,” one said. “Go away. You are a bad faith actor. We don’t want to talk to you. Just f* off. It’s a really boring old line. You are disgusting.” “I am disgusting?” “Yes, you are disgusting. You are not a journalist. It’s very clear what your position is here.” Now, their voices were getting louder: “Piss off.” “Thanks for your time, I appreciate it,” I said retreating, but they were not finished. “What are you doing here anyway? You are prejudiced. Hopefully nobody will ever buy a book you write. You are a charlatan. You are a fucking racist.”

Those surrounding us started to join in. “Well said, sister.” “Yeah, well said!” Others in the enclosure began to applaud. I noticed a tall man with a Palestinian flag a few metres away and he pointed at me, although I wasn’t sure why. A younger woman approached and said: “I have seen you all afternoon trying to get a rise from people.” “I only asked if Hamas is partly responsible. Is that so very provocative?” “You are here to cause trouble and you are going to get trouble,” she said.

I wish I could tell you that this was a one-off but I spoke to at least two dozen people and, with two exceptions (including a lovely black guy from north London who conversed intelligently and politely), the motivation for being here was obvious, potent and implacable. The hatred of Jews. I heard conspiracy theories (October 7 was a false flag operation), blood libels, and the pervasive view that the Manchester atrocity was not a heinous attack but righteous comeuppance for an evil people. My sense is that many felt liberated to say what they really thought by the proximity of like-minded others; the classic symptom of mob mentality.
What perhaps struck me the most was the vivid contrast between the ostensibly peaceful nature of the protest — holding flags, going limp when arrested so they had to be lifted by four officers at a time — and the latent violence of the views. As police carried off an elderly protester who I’d talked to a little earlier (and who was convinced of the virtue of his hateful opinions), protesters started shouting at the young officers: “Shame on you! Shame on you!” “But are they not following the instruction of a democratically elected government — even if you disagree with it — and upholding the rule of law?” “F democracy. F the police.”
Few would tell me their names, except for Julia and Ian, Musa from north London, Ahmed from Oxford and Jeremy from Lyme Regis; all the rest wished to spout their hate anonymously. Perhaps you will say that these people are not representative of the UK, but with protests in London and Manchester in the aftermath of Thursday’s attack on the holiest day in the Jewish calendar, and the dozens of other marches that have taken place since October 7, it is difficult to overestimate the potent and increasingly assertive nature of antisemitism.
You perhaps won’t be surprised to hear that most were virulently left wing. I almost felt like crying as another anonymous hater — perhaps 22, white, middle-class accent — started to lecture me about intersectionality and colonialist oppression. It was like woke bingo. I couldn’t help asking about the oppression of women in Gaza but her face went blank. “How the f* do you know women are treated badly?” Er, Amnesty International. This momentarily fazed her since she couldn’t quite place Amnesty in the institutional framework of the Jew-funded global conspiracy. But she recovered quickly: “Well, I haven’t read about that, but I have read about Jewish occupation and genocide.”
Another striking thing in this age of free-flowing digital information was the incuriosity of this supposedly politically motivated group. Trump announced a potential end to the Gaza conflict in a diplomatic coup last Monday when almost a dozen Muslim nations signing up to a proposed peace deal, alongside Israel. I am no Trump fan, and the proposal may yet fall apart, but there is no chance that this could have been achieved by Joe Biden, let alone Kamala Harris. Coming on top of the seminal Abraham Accords, it testifies to the diplomatic tenacity of the American president.
But how did they feel about this breakthrough here? How did protesters who “weep” for Gazans feel about the prospect the killing might end? I can assert that almost nobody I spoke to showed the slightest interest. “I haven’t kept up with that one.” “I haven’t read about it.” “If Netanyahu signed up, it must be awful.” But surely it is a good thing if it brings to an end the slaughter? Hesitation. “But it won’t be a just peace.” I didn’t need to ask the follow-up question because the answer was obvious. No peace can be just if it involves the LITTLE satan particularly when in concert with the Big Satan.
Joseph Henrich, the Harvard anthropologist, has said that ideology “doesn’t just blind; it binds”. Nowhere is this more true than with antisemitism. Many of these people do not just hate Jewish people, they have an ideology to justify and legitimise their hatred; one conveniently protected from doubt by the unwillingness to engage with anything that challenges it. In this sense, it is not so very different from the myopic fundamentalism of the group so many here admire. Hamas.
I left Trafalgar Square even more convinced that the government has demonstrated criminal complacency about the rise in antisemitism over recent years. Now is the time for robust action. Otherwise we will see more atrocities like Manchester, and ever greater fear among a group that has made a huge contribution to this nation and regarded it once as a place of refuge.

SharonEllis · 05/10/2025 07:35

Pav123 · 04/10/2025 21:17

You need to take a hard look at yourselves in the mirror. Tony Robinson, ambassador on antisemitism attending Isreal mid October., invited by the genocidal Israeli government 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Who do you mean by 'yourselves'? Who are you holding collectively responsible for the behaviour of the Israeli government?

Here is the response of the British Board of Deputies and Jewish Leadership Council. Every Jewish person I know agrees

Has Trump's pressure worked?
SharonEllis · 05/10/2025 07:29

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 04/10/2025 23:23

The people in that video are literally challenging him. Are they not at the protest themselves? As I said, one or two examples out of hundreds of thousands of people. doesn’t define the whole movement or the motives of the majority.

Did you miss this?
Funny how you lecture me on “widespread support” for extremists, when by the same logic you’re effectively saying all Israelis must back mass killings or ethnic cleansing, given the number of people who’ve expressed such views online and gone unchallenged. Selective outrage much?

There is no equivalence, I'm sorry thst makes no sense. There are loads of Isrselis challenging each other online, in person, in the knesset. I don't even know how you think you have an insight into Israeli society. Whereas we have all witnessed the behaviour on the marches.

mids2019 · 05/10/2025 04:34

Our own home Secretary has called the protests 'un British' and the police say they drag resources away from protecting Jewish places of worship. 500 people yesterday were arrested for supporting a terrorist group. Add to this the fact that actually peace maybe near in this conflict and Gazans themselves are hopeful then it seems bizarre that we have thousands calling for an end to the conflict which is at a sensitive stage for an ultimate peace deal. Where are all the calls thanking Trump for the forceful diplomacy using language terrorists understand that maybe yielding the results millions of virtual signalling numpties couldn't acheive?

The only conclusion I can draw is that these protestors are sore that Ham as have effectively surrendered (or contemplating surrendering after massive military and political pressure). The protests aren't in reality about cessation of hostilities or the so called genocide but veiled support for Hamas and their goal of the eradication of Israel. The maybe God willing peace in the middle East but some just want to spread a little more Jew hate before it's over.

OP posts:
Deerfolk · 04/10/2025 23:39

Judging by the videos of dead children I’ve seen today I would say no, Trumps pressure hasn’t worked.

MrsSkylerWhite · 04/10/2025 23:36

What a bloody depressing thread.

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 04/10/2025 23:27

1dayatatime · 04/10/2025 23:24

When I see these type of protesters today, I also see the future terrorists and their supporters of tomorrow.

Interesting. What about Israel’s actions over the past few years? Do you think deliberately bombing schools, hospitals, and killing tens of thousands of children is likely to prevent future terrorism- or to fuel it?

1dayatatime · 04/10/2025 23:24

SharonEllis · 04/10/2025 23:14

Here we have the man holding up his placard saying he supports Hamas, equating them with the French resistance. Utterly grotesque.

But the worst thing? The people around him not batting an eyelid.

x.com/habibi_uk/status/1974514266146263070?t=_nSmzcYaBd72DM00CIjSJw&s=09

When I see these type of protesters today, I also see the future terrorists and their supporters of tomorrow.

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 04/10/2025 23:23

SharonEllis · 04/10/2025 23:14

Here we have the man holding up his placard saying he supports Hamas, equating them with the French resistance. Utterly grotesque.

But the worst thing? The people around him not batting an eyelid.

x.com/habibi_uk/status/1974514266146263070?t=_nSmzcYaBd72DM00CIjSJw&s=09

The people in that video are literally challenging him. Are they not at the protest themselves? As I said, one or two examples out of hundreds of thousands of people. doesn’t define the whole movement or the motives of the majority.

Did you miss this?
Funny how you lecture me on “widespread support” for extremists, when by the same logic you’re effectively saying all Israelis must back mass killings or ethnic cleansing, given the number of people who’ve expressed such views online and gone unchallenged. Selective outrage much?

SharonEllis · 04/10/2025 23:14

Here we have the man holding up his placard saying he supports Hamas, equating them with the French resistance. Utterly grotesque.

But the worst thing? The people around him not batting an eyelid.

x.com/habibi_uk/status/1974514266146263070?t=_nSmzcYaBd72DM00CIjSJw&s=09

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 04/10/2025 22:53

SharonEllis · 04/10/2025 22:01

What would the methodology for proving 'wipespread support' be exactly?

I think the undoubtedly widespread participation in chants calling for the destruction of Israel and supporting 'legitimate resistance' is pretty good evidence.

What is evident is that there is widespread toleration of Hamas and extremist ideology. It doesn't matter if its 10 people explicitly expressing that ideology ig hundreds of people around them tolerate it and normalise it.

Funny how you lecture me on “widespread support” for extremists, when by the same logic you’re effectively saying all Israelis must back mass killings or ethnic cleansing, given the number of people who’ve expressed such views online and gone unchallenged. Selective outrage much?

Usou · 04/10/2025 22:41

Time will tell, but I'm not massively optimistic.

I think Hamas' word is worthless and think they will resume attacks but possibly on a smaller scale after any agreement comes into effect. Why else do they want to keep their arms? I also expect car/knife/suicide bombing attacks within Israel to continue.

When they have recovered sufficiently they will try again, although that may be 10-20 years away.

Rinse and repeat.

DontReinMeIn · 04/10/2025 22:29

SharonEllis · 04/10/2025 22:02

Matthew Syed describes his experience of widespread antisemitism at the protest today www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/pro-palestine-protests-cg3mm5zvg

Behind a paywall

NototerrorismIntheUK · 04/10/2025 22:23

SharonEllis · 04/10/2025 22:02

Matthew Syed describes his experience of widespread antisemitism at the protest today www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/pro-palestine-protests-cg3mm5zvg

I've read that. Its pure, antisemitism and mob mentality, the way they turned on him, when he asked about hamas.

SharonEllis · 04/10/2025 22:02

Matthew Syed describes his experience of widespread antisemitism at the protest today www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/pro-palestine-protests-cg3mm5zvg

SharonEllis · 04/10/2025 22:01

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 04/10/2025 19:20

I asked for evidence of widespread Hamas support, not one or two examples out of hundreds of thousands of people. There will always be extremists at any large public event, but that doesn’t define the whole movement or the motives of the majority.

What would the methodology for proving 'wipespread support' be exactly?

I think the undoubtedly widespread participation in chants calling for the destruction of Israel and supporting 'legitimate resistance' is pretty good evidence.

What is evident is that there is widespread toleration of Hamas and extremist ideology. It doesn't matter if its 10 people explicitly expressing that ideology ig hundreds of people around them tolerate it and normalise it.

Pav123 · 04/10/2025 21:37

The reason Tony Robinson has been invited is because he has a hatred for Muslims and Isreal wants him to sow division in the UK. Don't be fooled he hates Jews as well but is hiding that fact at present

Pav123 · 04/10/2025 21:17

Gloriia · 04/10/2025 11:15

They'll have to find another hobby, I'm sure Greta/kneecap/Bob Wanker Vylan are thinking up a bandwagon as we speak.

What will they do with their keffiyehs and flags though and what to do on a Sat afternoon if there isn't an intifada going on.

Like him or loathe him though but well done Trump on assisting and some progress being made.

You need to take a hard look at yourselves in the mirror. Tony Robinson, ambassador on antisemitism attending Isreal mid October., invited by the genocidal Israeli government 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 04/10/2025 19:20

SharonEllis · 04/10/2025 19:13

You asked for evidence of Hamas support at the marches. I am giving it to you. Again you are sidestepping the issue. I take it you now don't want evidence of suppprt for Hamas at the protests? Why is that?

I asked for evidence of widespread Hamas support, not one or two examples out of hundreds of thousands of people. There will always be extremists at any large public event, but that doesn’t define the whole movement or the motives of the majority.

SharonEllis · 04/10/2025 19:13

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 04/10/2025 19:12

If that’s the standard, should I start pulling up all the examples of Israelis or their supporters calling for Palestinians to die? Would that make anyone who doesn’t publicly condemn them “complicit”? I don’t think that’s a fair or useful way to talk about complex human tragedies.

Just as it would be wrong to hold all Jewish people responsible for the statements of a few extremists, it’s wrong to label thousands of peaceful protesters as “terrorist supporters” because of a tiny minority.

You asked for evidence of Hamas support at the marches. I am giving it to you. Again you are sidestepping the issue. I take it you now don't want evidence of suppprt for Hamas at the protests? Why is that?

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 04/10/2025 19:12

SharonEllis · 04/10/2025 19:04

Woman in Brighton this week after the murder of two Jews in Manchester. She was asked what should happen to zionists. This was her answer. When asked if she meant all of them she thought about it for a while and said 'yeh'. Film shown of Heidi Bachram's twitter.

If that’s the standard, should I start pulling up all the examples of Israelis or their supporters calling for Palestinians to die? Would that make anyone who doesn’t publicly condemn them “complicit”? I don’t think that’s a fair or useful way to talk about complex human tragedies.

Just as it would be wrong to hold all Jewish people responsible for the statements of a few extremists, it’s wrong to label thousands of peaceful protesters as “terrorist supporters” because of a tiny minority.

SharonEllis · 04/10/2025 19:11

Every single person who was a member of Manchester PSC or followed them on social media probably got that statement. They stayed members. They went on tje marches.

They took to the streets in Manchester after two Jews died at the hands of Islamist 'antizionist' extremism.

SharonEllis · 04/10/2025 19:08

Manchester PSC statement directly in support of Hamas. Note the date. They have organised regular marches in Manchester and are affiliated to PSC groups round the country.

Has Trump's pressure worked?
SharonEllis · 04/10/2025 19:04

Woman in Brighton this week after the murder of two Jews in Manchester. She was asked what should happen to zionists. This was her answer. When asked if she meant all of them she thought about it for a while and said 'yeh'. Film shown of Heidi Bachram's twitter.

Has Trump's pressure worked?
SharonEllis · 04/10/2025 18:41

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 04/10/2025 18:10

Isolated incidents don’t represent the majority of protesters. The vast majority of UK marches have been focused on humanitarian issues- civilians being killed, hospitals and schools bombed, children suffering. Highlighting rare extreme examples as if they define everyone misrepresents what most people are trying to do: call for an end to the suffering.

Just because you can't be bothered to go looking doesnt mean its not there. I don't have time to dig out hundreds of examples but I see them when people post from the marches. I know and you know they are there. I don't keep a database or anything because its so blindingly obvious thdy exist.

Everyone who stood next to that person or walked past them without challenging turned a blind eye. The chants have been chanted by the majority Or accompanied by the majority.

If people are there for humanitarian reasons why do they tolerate people who are obviously supporting terrorists? That is utterly grotesque. 2 people died this week. 4 were injured. Don't you think it is staggeringly complacent to just accept tjat marchers walk alongside terrorist supporters and just shrug their shoulders? Why dont irganisers make it crystal clear tjat vertain behaviour and images won't be tolerated. It is extreme moral cowardice.

Swipe left for the next trending thread