Hamas won't disarm - that is the barrier to peace

It’s a tragedy for Palestinians and Israelis.

Equal rights for Netanyahu to carry on destroying Gaza, when they have a stated aim of finishing the job? I don’t think so.

Equal rights for Netanyahu to carry on taking land in the West Bank when they have a stated aim of “returning” Judea and Samaria to Israel? I don’t think so.

Netanyahu went on TV with a map of greater Israel for god’s sake. How much more intent do you need to be shown?

Why are the Palestinians not afforded the same guarantees of safety?

Trump has just announced Hamas have until Sunday to accept.

Trump wrote on his Truth Social platform on Friday that an agreement must be reached by 18:00 Washington time (22:00 GMT) on Sunday.

"If this LAST CHANCE agreement is not reached, all HELL, like no one has ever seen before, will break out against Hamas. THERE WILL BE PEACE IN THE MIDDLE EAST ONE WAY OR THE OTHER," Trump wrote in the Truth Social post.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdxq7zp7002o

The actual barrier to peace is that neither side trusts the other. Which is completely understandable.

Yes, I had a 'recollections vary' moment, but it's a big board.....

Why did Hamas launch the attack on October 7th if they only had limited means of defending themselves?

What happens though if Hamas don’t agree?

Then let the war continue. It's a tragedy for the Palestinians

The principle of "might is right" may not be morally right.

But in the context of which side gets more say at the end of a war, it tends to be the way things go.

If you lose you DO have to pay consequences. Otherwise countries would be starting wars all the time if there were no consequences to losing.

You must be thinking of someone else.

Nice rage-baiting topic! First class!

Of course it matters whether Israel recognises a Palestinian state. It needs to stop sanctioning the illegal settlements, too. After decades of effective control by Israel, I think can understand why some would rather die than go back to that, especially now.

We've been through this before haven't we, and you've even up accepting that's not what Hamas have said they want. I remember we discussed it at painful length.

Then you keep popping up sprouting the same information again.

I think they should agree because the war needs to come to an end. What's the alternative? Should they they turn down the peace deal and allow the war to continue?

How many more people do they want to sacrifice? Does it matter if Israel recognises a Palestinian state? Most of the rest of the world does.

And it's a bit rich if Hamas dig their heels in over Israel not recognising a Palestinian state when they don't recognise Israel! They just refer to it as the 'Zionist entity'

The problem is, both sides are the mirror of each other in the sense of what they want to achieve and how they see each other. If the boot was on the other foot so to speak, Palestinians would bomb Israelis into smithereens, quite happily.

The only solution is to have 2 states, but how it can be separated and kept at peace? They will never stop fighting and trying to take land from each other. That region has been a nightmarish hotbed or fighting ever since the formation of Israel, and no one knows how to sort it out... there is no point in pretending some sort of nice and easy "free Palestine" solution exists (unless the idea is to get rid of Israel completely).

This current conflict was connived to demonise Israel as a genocidal rogue State of evil Jews where Hamas deliberately set the stage for their own people to be killed as human sacrifices to make Israel a pariah on the world stage, decimating it's economy by dragging out the war and reducing access to military weapons (hence the pressure on Western governments to refuse to sell arms) and when it was weak enough, other Arab countries like Egypt and Syria and also Iran may have joined the fray. Israel knew all this but they were quite literally damned if they didn't respond to Oct 7th and damned if they did.
I agree. Although Israel have played right into their hands with their response. If Hamas wanted peace and gave a damn about Palestinian civilians, they would have just released the hostages months ago. Its clear they couldn't care less. They just want Israel to be a pariah state, and Israel have fallen right into their trap.

Equal rights for Hamas to carry on holding weapons when they have a stated aim of killing all Jews ... I don't think so.

Again, all that is an aside. You’re going with the principle of “might is right” and the idea that if you lose you have to pay the consequences.

But that is not going to solve anything in the long run. What we are talking about is equal rights and justice. Both sides deserve the right to live in self-determination and both sides deserve justice for the crimes committed against them.

If all of a sudden, the US pulled their support and the ME states formed an alliance and started turning Israel to rubble, you wouldn’t say to Israel “oh well, fair play, you shouldn’t start a war you can’t finish” or “ you need to surrender else you’re just warmongers who want to kill Arabs” would you? You wouldn’t bow to the Might is Right principle then so why do it now?

Also the IRA didn’t fully disarm until 2005 even that was staged.

Who cares?

The poor guy was kidnapped in Gaza by a jihadist death cult, Hamas isn't the only one operating in Gaza, and then murdered

What security will there be for international journalists if they were to go into Gaza?

I mean, Spanish diplomats don't want to move to the new Palestine embassy in Ramallah. They want to stay in Tel Aviv 😂

Apologies, I made an incorrect assumption.
Why do you think that Hamas would agree when Netanyahu has made it crystal clear that he will do everything in his power to prevent a Palestinian state?

Did you bother to read the article from 2011 you posted

he was not killed by Hamas

“Vittorio Arrigoni, 36, was seized on Thursday by a radical group that has been in conflict with Hamas and is seeking the release of its leader.
Vittorio Arrigoni was seized by Salafist radicals, an Islamist movement itself that considers Hamas as too moderate, BBC Gaza correspondent Jon Donnison says.

the Hamas interior Ministry spokesperson
described the killing as a "heinous crime which has nothing to do with our values, our religion, our customs and traditions", and vowed to hunt down and bring to justice others who were involved

please do not post misinformation

That isn’t good.

I do

You believe there should be a state of Israel. So do I. I also believe there should be a state of Palestine. Why don’t you?

Hmm ... you have a bit of a point.

Though I don't personally think Netanyahu & his government are as bad as Hamas they are too right wing for my taste. However, I do empathise with their goals to protect Israel (not with the goals some of them have re the West Bank but seems like Trump has reigned them in on annexation now thank goodness).