Gaza Flotilla - genuine peace activists or Hamas puppets?

I know what you mean - been to Cyprus a few times and it doesn't feel like a ME country because culturally it's European.

Got a little hint from your post there that you could be from Ireland.

Ireland has endorsed the deal too of course under the EU umbrella (though no statement from them which isn't surprising given their consistently tough stance against Israel).

Even China and Russia have endorsed the plan!

Hamas really will be isolated if they turn down a plan that pretty much the whole world has endorsed.

Weird side note perhaps but my brain sort of doesn't register Cyprus as the ME (so you're all fine ... in any case: perfectly safe where I am, too, for me as a visibly white European looking individual).

I suppose geographically it technically belongs to the Levant. But, yeah, I've never thought of it like so.

An actual peace deal could have been drawn up though. One that treats Palestinians like people and accepts that they are entitled to the same right to their own state and self determination as Israelis. That was the whole point of countries recognising Palestine so that they could go to the negotiating table on equal footing as Israelis. Except there is no negotiation, the party that has carried out the genocide, and the US who has funded it, are the ones who get to decide the future of the people against whom they’re committing genocide. Once again Palestinians are just pawns. There isnt a single guarantee to Palestinians in this deal, every one is for Israelis.

Take this shit deal where you are still living in intolerable conditions under occupation and with the presence of the people who have spent the past 2 years raping, torturing and killing you or we will continue to starve and slaughter everyone in Gaza isn't a 'peace deal' . It's just less rape, starvation, torture and death. To frame it as a 'peace deal' is disingenuous. Sure it will be better than the present situation but that isn't peace.

Maybe at this stage it's good to remind people why the blockades are in place:

The Port of Gaza has been under Israeli siege since 2007, when Israel imposed a strict blockade on Gaza. The blockade was put on Gaza after Hamas starts firing rockets into civilian areas in Israel. Egypt also responded with a blockade and bulldozed half of Raffa to create a buffer zone between Gaza and Egypt.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Seaport_plans#:~:text=The%20Port%20of%20Gaza%20has,zone%20between%20Gaza%20and%20Egypt.

I would like to know too as going to Cyprus next year - hope it's not there!

The Cyprus government has welcomed the peace plan anyway.

I wasn't assuming that your government was Iran.

Just pointing out that nearly every government in the Middle East where you said you were has endorsed the peace plan, with the exception of Iran.

So it's highly probable that the government where you are has endorsed the peace plan, unless you are in Iran.

(sorry I missed the "currently" bit so did not pick up that you were currently travelling on business).

Will very happily elaborate at great length about specifics when I'm back but: place that is generally considered "friendly" and "pro-Western".

Where are you if you dont mind me asking?

Why would you think my government is "Iran"? I'm as British as you presumably are. I've just travelled extensively in the region, mostly for business, but some for pleasure, too. I wasn't commenting my personal opinion at this time, just giving an "on the ground" report from how all of this is going down here.

As a general rule: from what I can gouge many people here tend to feel towards Israelis sort of like a lot of you explicitly or implicitly feel towards Palestinians: they think their government is literally evil incarnate and as for the people: just not people's primary concern here.

It's quite interesting to be back. It's my first trip since this current escalation and I'm not that surprised per se but definitely notice just how palpable the anger is.

No you are mistaken if you are assuming that we thought there was no problem with how Gazans were living prior to this conflict.

It’s a no brainer though that it’s better for them if the fighting stops compared to their fate if it continues.

Things have not got better for Gazans since 7/10, they have got way worse. Things might have improved for them if Hamas had been more successful in their military endeavours but that isn’t what happened. And it won’t happen now Hamas are so weakened and have lost the support of most traditional allies who just want them to sign the deal now and accept they lost.

I think that's a massive problem with all of this, the fact that people were under the impression that Palestinians were living in peace prior to this conflict. Living under the violent occupation of a nuclear power hell bent on having your homes for themselves isn't peace, it wasn't peace prior to Oct 7 and it won't be peace after. Denying Palestinians the right to their own state, the right to self determination, threatening them with force if they dare to try to have that right, it's not peace. It's the status quo that Palestinians have lived under for decades.

Ask the people in Gaza who were bombed for days at the end of Sept 2023 by Israel if they were living in 'peace'. The Israeli government don't want peace anymore than Hamas do. To quote Netanyahu speaking on Palestine 'This land is ours', and 'we will forcibly resist a Palestinian state' and that's exactly what they have been doing and will continue to do for years to come.

But they do all follow the flotilla and worry for their safety

I don't particularly give a shit what happens to them, except that it would be annoying to see Greta and her chums elevated to martyr status.

It's not a "siege" and it's not illegal. It's a legal war waged in response to the invasion of Israel, the murder of 1195 Israeli citizens, the kidnapping of 251 Israeli, African and Thai people, which included 30 children, one of them only 9 months old.
This followed on from over a decade of regular shelling by rockets from inside Gazan territory by the terrorist organisation Hamas, who were voted in as the government by the majority.
Greta and her ship of fools are working for and with a terrorist organisation, while useful idiots in the west clap like seals.

Immediate stopping of the war is in the plan, sounds like peace. Ending killing is good, isn't it?

Not sure the flotilla activists or some on mn want the peace deal to be agreed upon, and carried out, especially in light of negativity yesterday.

Are the activists so full of ego that they would ignore the pleas of Italy (and others) that the fragile balance of trying to agreed a peace deal might be jeopardised by them. Yes I believe they have massive egos.

If feels like many enjoy the cause rather too much, otherwise they'd hope the peace plan with immediate end to war is agreed. Hamas probably want to see what support they have if they turn it down. Obviously the safety of their own people is not a consideration to them. Will they want to keep the power and adoration.

I thought it was already flattened? How many times can a flat thing be reflattened?

The plan clearly sets out a plan for a ceasefire which Hamas can choose to accept.

Exactly. Imagine Hamas saying that they would agree to the plan but then in the same breath saying that they will resist Israels existence with force and refuse to disarm. That's exactly what Israel are doing. And posters are doing the same the thing that they always do, refuse to actually listen to what Israel are saying that their plans are. 50000 dead and injured children, 2 million people starved and most of Gaza flattened isn't enough for them to believe Israel when they tell us that they are genocidal.

Netanyahu won't consider a 2 state solution while he's in charge but he won't be PM forever, there are elections next year.

It's a plan to stop the war so that would be a more peaceful outcome than not stopping the war.

Point16 stipulates that the IDF will gradually withdraw from Gaza:

Israel will not occupy or annex Gaza. As the ISF establishes control and stability, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) will withdraw based on standards, milestones, and timeframes linked to demilitarization that will be agreed upon between the IDF, ISF, the guarantors, and the United States, with the objective of a secure Gaza that no longer poses a threat to Israel, Egypt, or its citizens. Practically, the IDF will progressively hand over the Gaza territory it occupies to the ISF according to an agreement they will make with the transitional authority until they are withdrawn completely from Gaza, save for a security perimeter presence that will remain until Gaza is properly secure from any resurgent terror threat.

But it isn’t a peace plan.

Netanyahu has said he will reject any statehood for Palestine. It’s just free rein for Israel to go in and flatten it.

You must feel sad then that your government has endorsed the peace plan?

Unless your government is Iran.

@SomeWomanSomewhere so what do they think is the route to peace?

Currently somewhere in the Middle East. Nobody here trusts any European government's or any US "peace" plans - definitely not anything with Blair's name on it.

But they do all follow the flotilla and worry for their safety. Oh and ... good luck to anyone seeking to buy a coke. It's BDS all the way around here.

They genuinely don't care what Meloni thinks. And why should they?

Yes they are a bunch of idiots who don't even respect that a peace plan is potentially about to be agreed and it's not the time to - no pun intended - rock the boat.