Gaza Flotilla - genuine peace activists or Hamas puppets?

So people on the flotilla are only potentially at risk if their governments respond in a certain way? Where’s the logic?

They aren’t at risk but people like to pretend they are to have something else to get outraged about.

All I ever hear about is anti Israel sentiment expressed by the Irish not the other way around. Wasn’t one bit surprised to find out that so many of the people on board the flotillas are Irish.

From governments responses, yes I do think some people could be at risk.

Hopefully all will be ok. I actually know three people on the flotillas. Only realised yesterday that it was three. So yes the thoughts of them being detained. Especially with all the anti Irish sentiment in Israel is worrying.

What better time is there to do it again then when 2 million people are starving when without the illegal blockade they wouldn't be?

Why should Greta be neutral about an illegal blockade that causes great hardship, about a country breaking international law?

A motley crew of unarmed activists aren’t threatening peace.

What incites tensions is Netanyahu insisting that that the IDF will remain in parts of Gaza and that Israel will forcibly resist a Palestinian state.

The flotilla are not the problem.

Other people saying the people on the flotilla were in danger from the IDF.

I don’t think they were, based on what we know happened with Greta's last flotilla - do you?

I don’t know what you mean by my “real issue”.

My opinion is that the futillas are at best pointless and at worst giving anti Israel people another excuse to incite tension which isn’t helpful at this sensitive time when we should all be hoping for peace in Gaza.

I am not a Zionist in that I feel the way Israel was created was barbaric and wrong but I also do not want to see it dismantled or jews deported

Then you’re a Zionist as you acknowledge the state of Israel and do not want it returned to the ownership of Palestinians. It’s that simple. You are the enemy, to Hamas, and a wide number of Palestine ‘supporters’.

I don’t think many people understand the extreme ideology they are inadvertently championing. You can’t be a moderate supporter, that’s not how it works.

“Other people”

Like all these governments making statements asking that Israel abide by international law and act with proportionality?

They are pointless for avoiding thousands of deaths from starvation and it is also very clear that the amount of aid on board is not going to avert a famine. It’s been perfectly clear to me that the flotilla is primarily a protest not aid delivery.

Is your real issue the significant shift in tone from international governments about this flotilla compared to previous ones?

I’m struggling to understand the hatred towards it. I really am.

Yes I said they were better than nothing.

I think you were amongst those arguing they were pointless as the amount of aid was small - yet now you are suggesting the aid on board the flotillas is not that insignificant and comparing it to aid drops.

And I’m not saying being on the flotillas is dangerous. The biggest risk they face is seasickness as far as I can tell. It’s other people saying they are in danger.

But you were so positive about the airdrops? Better than nothing I think you said.

I’m not grasping what is dangerous about non violent protest actions. If the whole world stuck to non violent actions to make their point, wouldn’t we all be much better off.

Highlighting the illegal blockade through peaceful means is not Hate.

So nothing in the last 9 years but Greta & co decide now is the right time to start protesting about the issue again. And won’t even take a few days pause during a highly sensitive moment re the peace plan.

Taken in conjunction with her refusal to watch the footage of 7/10 despite caring enough about the war to make protesting it her full time job makes me draw my own conclusions about her anti Jewish sentiment bias. If she was neutral she would want to understand both sides in the conflict, including Netanyahu’s motivation for trying to destroy Hamas.

Exactly and the boats setting sail weeks ago has actually helped raise awareness. It has seen EU countries offer their military vessels to assist the flotilla, that is a new development and a signal to Israel that they will no longer stand by and watch them commit crimes.

Dropping incendiary devices on boats with EU, UK and US citizens on board, including politicians, peace activists, lawyers and journalists has forced countries to see how this affects all of us.

The flotilla and the boycott movement are helping to put pressure on Israel to end this genocide. We should all support anything that is helping to end violence.

The flotilla movement was founded decades ago. There were 31 boats between 2008 and 2016. Five of which reached Gaza. This isn't some sudden thing like you seem to be implying this movement has been happening for decades.

Yet as you say it’s been going on for decades so why do the flotillas choose now - a time of huge tension & a war going on - to promote their objections to the long existing blockade? Do you - or they- really think Israel are likely to unblock it at this point in time when the reason for the blockade in the first place was to stop Hamas importing arms via the port?

Don’t you think those on board the flotillas could at least have delayed their arrival by a few days to get the Hamas response before causing more political upheaval & disorder?

Some people don't regard highlighting illegal blockades as 'hating'. There are 2 million people whose lives have been severely impacted for decades by this illegal blockade. Reducing it down to 'hating on Israel' is really juvenile.

It isn't some kind of game Twiglets, the blockade has very real effects on Palestinian families and their economy. From B’Tselem in 2020 and that is just one aspect of the blockade.

Israel has arrested fishermen and seized their boats, banned the import of raw materials used for repairs, and fired at boats that it claimed sailed beyond the permitted range. To date, Israeli gunfire has killed seven fishermen and wounded hundreds. The restrictions have led to the near-collapse of the Gazan fishing industry: there are currently less than 4,000 fishermen, as opposed to 10,000 or so 20 years ago. Those remaining suffer from perilous working conditions imposed by Israel and live with their families in abject poverty.

It is an illegal blockade - a blockade has to fulfil many conditions, one of which is it can’t stop aid coming into the region so by stopping boats carrying aid they are in breach of international law. The flotilla have always said that the amount of aid they are carrying is not enough to make a difference but they want to end the blockade so that it can be opened as an aid corridor for boats that can carry more supplies.

The other aspect of the blockade that is illegal is that it is not temporary, this blockade has been in place for decades.

Israel are also not just policing Palestinian waters, they are also stopping boats in international waters, which again is illegal.

Ooh more than one airdrop!

Yet lots of the pro PALs were calling the air drops pointless at the time in terms of the tiny amount of aid each one could provide.

Pointless and dangerous people said. A bit like the flotillas ability to deliver aid, apart from the flotillas only pretend to be in danger, secure in the knowledge those aboard will promptly be deported to Europe.

Israel has to dispose of Hamas, for themselves and for the good of the Palestinians.
Everyone benefits from Hamas being destroyed.
It’s Hamas that use Palestinians as human shields.

Have they agreed to the ceasefire yet?

They aren’t pretending though. They are open about the fact that the purpose is to challenge the blockade.

Although they do have 40 tons of aid this time which is more than an airdrop could deliver.

They may have expected interception but I’m sure they are scared, all the same. Ultimately the IDF are using, what is an unnecessary show of force, to intimidate them.

The boats are small and the passengers are unarmed. Of course it will be frightening to be surrounded and taken in the dark by armed IDF.

I am not a Zionist in that I feel the way Israel was created was barbaric and wrong but I also do not want to see it dismantled or jews deported. I don’t believe anyone should be punished for what their ancestors did and it is their home now, but it is also the Palestinian’s home. We need to acknowledge and teach our children about past crimes in order to learn from them and understand the scars the other side are carrying but we obviously can’t rewrite history or undo the past.

I would like Israel to extend equal rights to Palestinians, stop the settlements, give back recently stolen land and houses, arrest violent settlers, deport violent settlers with dual citizenship and stop the bombings. I am different to many people in that I think a one state solution might be the best way forward, to combine Israel and Palestine into something new that respects all cultures, all religions and gives equal representation in government, army and police. Remove segregation from schools and teach kids about the atrocities committed by both sides.

I don’t like the current deal not because I show “fake empathy” for the Palestinian people but because I have grown up seeing Gaza bombed over and over again on the news, seeing little children shot in cold blood. These people have been denied their basic human rights and freedoms for decades, this is the worst atrocity that has happened to them in my lifetime but it is not the only atrocity. The deal ends the fighting today but it gives no assurances that in 5 years time Israel won’t bomb Gaza again. It does not give Palestine control over it’s own borders. I would like the deal passed as a stepping stone to a better deal but this current deal does not protect Palestinians from further aggression and it allows the leaders in Hamas and Israel to get off scot free.

You know full well their organisers have encouraged the public perception that they are mainly trying to deliver humanitarian aid.

They don’t fail to mention that they have aid on board do they? Trying to appeal to human emotions rather than saying it’s just a political act that they know in advance won’t achieve the supposed goal of delivering aid.

it’s just an excuse for more hating on Israel basically. Whether everyone understands that or not.

Maybe I should clarify at this point that I accept that some people on the futilla are well meaning but misguided. In my opinion of course.

Their aims are clearly stated on their website.
1.We challenge the blockade
2.We expose the nature of the occupation.
3.We raise awareness
4.We challenge the blockade in courts.
5.We respond to calls from Gaza.
6.We offer hope and inspiration.

Can you tell me what about these clearly stated aims makes you think that they are 'pretending their main goal is to deliver aid'? It's not their fault if their detractors can't be bothered to read their website and see what they are about. Of course they knew that Israel would try and illegally detain them, that's all part of trying to highlight Israels illegal blockade. Given the number of protests yesterday and the news coverage that the flotilla received I would say that they were very successful at that.

Are you not annoyed that Israel are pretending that the volunteers were trying to “breach a lawful naval blockade”, a claim that goes against international law? Where is the anger for the narcissism that makes Israel think they are above International law?