Gaza Flotilla - genuine peace activists or Hamas puppets?

What?

Do you have a link for that? I've seen reports of an airstrike killing four people, not fifty. I think it said the building had 40/50 people in it.

They are entirely without agency. Let the journalists in.

Well yes we can only hope for moderate governments on all sides. And we are all mainly counting on Trump! Better than nothing.

50 people were killed in Palestine while they were celebrating a ceasefire today - by Israel. How long can this be defended?

Oh yes...and October 7th. I hope that going forward moderate governance on all sides, deradicalisation of education and intercommunity initiatives can bring peace going forward, there's always hope. (thanks Pandora).

In the middle east strong arm tactics are the norm, but hey at least if it's an arab country doing the strong arming it won't be controversial.

Well honestly I think you can feel as much empathy for the people murdered in Israel as you can for all of those subsequently murdered in Gaza. 37 children died in Israel that day. I’m not trying to belittle it. That is more than a class full of children. It is absolutely devastating. But a whole class of children have been killed in Gaza every day since then?

How is this ok? How does it solve anything? How does it make Israel more safe? It’s time for peace now. Whatever side your sympathies lie nobody should be defending further deaths.

The houthis, hezbollah, hamas, pij, many members of fatah, Iran and their idiot cheerleaders in the west are not on the same page as you. Sadly some of them like to direct rockets, missiles, jihadis and suicide bombers to prove their point.

Israeli’s safety shouldn’t come at the expense of Palestinian’s safety. That’s the crux of the issue.

Well, yes, but the Palestinians aren't without agency, and have a responsibility towards behaving in a way that doesn't risk their own safety.

I was a Sweet Summer Child when I was younger.
Contentment only came when I started seeing the world as it is and not as I want it to be.
Call out to your heart's content.
I said what I said. We will never cross paths to change each other's perspectives.

@PaxAeternaI knew and admired many many pro Palestinian Jews in Israel that did an awful amount for their case. Sadly a lot were murdered in their kibbutzim on October 7th along with their wider families after being betrayed by the people they advocated so heavily for.

I know where my sympathy lies.

Israeli’s safety shouldn’t come at the expense of Palestinian’s safety. That’s the crux of the issue.

the existence of Israel isn’t up for debate. In no talks has it been suggested that Israel should disappear. That’s not what international governments are talking about.

Of course there are individuals who think this but on a world stage. It’s not really a thing that Israel should disappear. This is not going to happen. It’s not up for discussion.

Being pro Palestinian doesn’t mean being against the existence of Israel, it just means being against the non existence of Palestine.

This is not the case for many people, and that is the problem.

The country that became Bangladesh (aka East Bengal) and Pakistan were created at the same time during partition along sectarian lines.

@quantumbutterfly all this “look over here” stuff . Look at how badly these people were treated in the 1940’s. I don’t get how it absolves Israel of committing genocide today.

I’m from a country that was badly treated by Britain in the relatively recent past. But things have moved on. Things have moved on in the republic because we had our own state, and subsequently been able to prosper. So now Ireland and the UK are friends. Things did not move on in the North of Ireland because a portion of the population were treated unfairly. But since the GFA things have somewhat moved along.

Things change, atrocities happen in the past but things can move along as long as everyone has a chance to live in safety and prosper.

The creation of Israel was devastating for Palestinians but that doesn’t mean that everything should return to how it was before. Most Israelis were born in Israel now and they have a right to live there too.

Being pro Palestinian doesn’t mean being against the existence of Israel, it just means being against the non existence of Palestine.

I don’t understand how this contradicts anything that I have said.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_of_India

...which refers to when Bangladesh was created as East Bengal, during partition.

Well I do genuinely know Jewish people who are involved in the pro Palestinian movement. But that’s because I met them through it. They are all Irish born Jews, the odd American.

I also know Israelis. I don’t know them well, but many would work with my husband. We would all politely avoid the topic on social occasions, but they seem to have a different opinion. But ultimately I don’t blame some random Israeli working in tech here for the actions of the Israeli government in Gaza. I feel like it would be rude to bring it up.

Because that happened during the partition of India not the creation of Bangladesh. I’m going to wager a guess it’s because of the lack of a movement within this community themselves to return for many different reasons.

Ultimately the example of the Bengalis is much more similar. They were left stateless.

But regardless the attention on the Palestinians, particularly at this time, stems from the western governments support of their suffering.

I’m not even talking about historical support. The support of western government of this very war has all contributed to what is looking an awful lot like a genocide. Hence the anger, the international condemnation from many sides.

@KoalaKoKo also people don’t acknowledge why exactly members of a sect or the ultra religious may not have the same motivations. It’s used as a gotcha moment.

I agree with @SharonEllisand undoubtedly there are Jewish people who are not zionists and are
’pro pal’s’ but the ‘I know loads of Jewish people’ etc crew just doesn’t ring true to me for a variety of reasons.

Out of curiosity, what happens to the boats once they're intercepted? Does Israel give them back or confiscate them? I've tried searching but couldn't find an answer and thought someone in this thread might know.

Thar's a slightly different issue. Thinking people may not be arguing in good faith on MN (quelle surprise!) Is not the same as saying there aren't Jews in the Pro-Pal movement. Everyone knows there are.

Yesterday on the thread where someone asked why people support Israel there was one and I have seen similar in the past where people have questioned the truthfulness of pro Palestinian posters who say they are jewish. You were posting on this thread too - I am surprised you did not see it.

When has anyone questioned whether Jewish people campaign as part of the pro Palestine movement? I don't think I have ever come across tbat.