Footage shows public executions in Gaza City street

Been on the channel 4 news all week.

What would your “ask” be in a March for the women of Afghanistan out of interest?

The Taliban is only internationally recognised by one country. There are sanctions. Aid rarely passes directly into the hands of the Taliban.

What about the women and girls in Afghanistan that the West LITERALLY deserted.

Absolute no marches for them

But both those things aren't happening. That's the point.

That is so true. The government should do more to pressure UAE. But that alone won’t end the war in Sudan unfortunately. It’s an extremely complicated situation with many armed groups involved backed by many different countries.

I don’t think saying we should put pressure on UAE to stop arming the RSF means that we should stop asking Israel to stop killing people though. We should do both of these things.

They are civilian deaths that the US caused which is clear in my post. The poster was speaking about US involvement in Syria. 90% of deaths were caused by the Assad regime. There were many other actors involved. The US are estimated to have caused 13,000 civilian deaths by Amnesty. The US don’t admit to this though.

And of course, the UK's ally the United Arab Emirates are supporting the RSF, providing them with arms and money. We, meanwhile, collaborate with the UAE militarily and sell them weapons.

Where are your figures ftom? Wiki says On 28 June 2022, the United Nations Human Rights Office (OHCHR) stated that at least 306,887 civilians had been killed in Syria during the conflict between March 2011 and March 2021, representing about 1.5% of its pre-war population. This figure did not include indirect and non-civilian deaths. UN's commission of inquiry on the Syrian Arab Republic estimated that between 2011 and May 2021, more than 580,000 people were killed; with 13 million Syrians being displaced and 6.7 million refugees forced to flee Syria. Ba'athist government forces reportedly arrested and tortured numerous repatriated refugees, subjecting them to forced disappearances and extrajudicial executions.

The “tide has started to turn” is referring to the rhetoric from some of Israel’s allies turning from “Israel has a right to defend itself” and providing weapons for this to “stop killing civilians” and starting to stop arms sales. What on earth do you think it meant?

I’d like the UK, the US et al to attempt to use their diplomatic leverage to bring about a ceasefire that has human rights at its heart. We are seeing the seeds of this now with the new US plan for Palestine that aligns somewhat with the New York declaration.

Although Israel is independent. Its security and survival is very much linked to its international alliances. Western support has shaped the conflict. It is truly bizarre that you think that the US in particular could have no role in stopping it.

I’m not really sure what your point about the US in Syria . I don’t think many would ague against the US being involved in this instance. Independent estimates say that 12,000 civilians died over the course of 10 years (via US ) . This is of course, far too many civilian deaths, and there is much to be critical of like what happened in Raqqa. But it is not comparable to what the US has supported Israel in doing now which is an absolute flagrant disregard of international law.

Me neither. I asked myself these questions about a decade ago. Its hard to unpick your own moral certainties. But it is possible.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp8wzzjze8xo

If it doesn't have Israel involved people aint interested. Looks like some pretty awful stuff happening in Sudan. don't see baying mobs in London shouting about this.....

Exactly- so very well put.

What is dont understand is why people don't ask themselves these questions.

@SisterTeatime I never understand this argument either. On the one hand we are told that people's concern is only humanitarian, for children, babies. Who wouldn't want to protect babies & children? As in, its a universal concern and nothing to do with Palestinians or Israel. To follow this to its logical conclusion would mean that people are equally concerned about all humanitarian crises.

But we know that isnt true. Its only this one.

So its not a universal humanitarian concern. Its only certain babies and children we care about. Apparently its only those where we can identify 'Western complicity'.

Ok. So we'd expect equal concern for Yemenis as there is vast Western complicity in supporting Saudi Arabia. But we know there isn't. How do we identify complicity. We're always being told 'silence is complicity'. Well we're silent about a lot of conflicts. But apparently we're not complicit in those.

But your question is a good one. Would everyone be fine with what what's happening if the West was not 'complicit'? I imagine the answer would be no because its a humanitarian concern.

And round we go.

So it’s the involvement of our government and allies that bothers you? I do understand that, but I’m not sure your reasoning is sound. Would it be okay if Israel was doing what they are without our backing? It’s not as though the US and UK started the war (it’s very different from feeling we shouldn’t have gone into Iraq, for example).

Syria was a civil war and the Assad government was backed by Iran, Russia and Hezbollah, all enemies of the West. I think I’m right in saying that the US provided support against ISIS factions. I know many other countries were involved but I’m not sure what point you’re making about the response from the West or the ‘tide starting to turn’? Can you clarify?

in any case pp was clearly making a point about numbers of civilian casualties in Syria.

Geopolitics exist and Israel is an ally of the West, while Hamas is a proxy of Iran.

What do you want the US, UK etc to do? Israel is an independent country and our ally. While war crimes and atrocities should always be dealt with, this is something that Israel and its allies has mechanisms to deal with. Hamas not so much.

Again, if you don’t want to be flattened by superior military capability, don’t start wars with your militarily superior neighbour. It’s not as though US backing for Israel is a closely guarded secret, either.

The fact that western governments, in particular the US. are complicit in the atrocities against a largely civilian population.

Interesting you use Syria as an example. The Assad regime was also responsible for 90% of civilian deaths but the response from the West was very different to what we are seeing now. Although the tide has finally started to change.

All very important points, but seriously you cannot blame Hamas for any of this, its not their fault ever, dont you realise that? They are merely poor freedom fighters against the colonisers, its OK for them to do these things. Of course they shouldn't take care of their children thats not their responsibility.

Surrender, why, when by letting the conflict continue they gain more martyrs and more support from the west. You really should know better than suggesting any of this is their fault because back over 70 years ago..... so therefore..... I mean they couldn't possibly chose any other way, could they.

A number of reasons, but at its heart is an odd coalition of the extreme left and extreme Islamists.

For some it is simple anti semitism, for others it's about being anti Western, for others it's leftist ideology that the stronger party is always the bad guy and lastly for others it is simply what trends best on social media, for example you'll get far more likes posting about the plight of Gazans than you will about Sudan or Syria.

So when Hamas launched their terrorist attack on the 7th October 2023 they knew that they could not militarily defeat Israel. But by committing as heinous as possible atrocities and by taking hostages they knew that Israel would have to respond.

They also knew that the more Gazan civilians killed or injured (actual or self reported) especially children then the more support they would receive from the West. I

t's therefore in the interest of Hamas to create as many Gazan civilian deaths as possible and as much suffering as possible. Even if there was a ceasefire tomorrow do you think that Hamas would be more interested in rebuilding Gaza and helping it's civilians or in reorganising and rearming to repeat the 7th October attack (as they have openly promised to do).

If people really and genuinely want to stop the killings and stop the suffering of ordinary Gazans then they would be calling for Hamas to be removed preferably by the Gazans themselves or failing that by the Israelis.

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The fact that it is part of a long history of abuse of Palestinians including land theft, displacement, human rights abuses, breaches of international law, blockade, starvation, torture and apartheid which Israel has never been called to account for

That's not the point I was making. It's clear from these threads that we all respond emotionally to different things. For some people, for whatever reason, that seems to be numbers.

The fact that is being allowed to continue without censure the fact that western governments have funded and supplied arms to the Israeli government

You said previously about 20000 children allegedly killed in gaza. Did you post extensively about the 30,000 verified deaths of dc in syria? What is it about this conflict that disgusts some posters more than very similar conflicts in Syria and Yemen do you think?

It”s not numbers, it’s people and children just like ours

Numbers... it's all numbers...