Central Bank of Ireland confirms it will no longer approve sale of Israeli ‘war bonds’

FFS I have never said 'that anti semitism is the reason our government has been critising Israel'. I have said some criticism in Ireland is shaped by antisemitism.

Could you listen to Irish people when they tell you that it is not.
That is NOT how it works. You listen to the victims of racism, not the people perpetrating the racism. Have you ever heard of a person saying to a black person, shush now, white people say they are not racist, lets put it all behind us, shall we?

I have to say, even I have been shocked by this thread. Absolutely no self-reflection whatsoever.

I didnt say historical incidents are 'behind government policy today' but do you have no idea how racism, cultutlral memory, prejudice actually work? Have you given it no thought at all?

You are dismissing the flag. You said it was a just a piece of cloth and said 'give me strength'. Would you say to a black person in america dont let the confederate flag bother you, its just a bit of cloth? Or perhaps a burning cross, just a bit of wood?

The PFLP is viscious extreme antisemitic organisation, responsible for numerous murders and particularly noted for its plane hijackings. It does not recognise Israel. It is proscribed by the EU and the US. Supporti g it is illegal but more important its obviously designed to intimidate Jews and cannot be anything other than antisemitic.

Im done here now.

You are trying to say that anti semitism is the reason our government has been critising Israel.

Could you listen to Irish people when they tell you that it is not.

What does the history of Irish colonialism “count” towards do you think? I don’t understand what you mean by that. It happened. These incidents of anti semitism happened too. But those historical incidents are not what’s behind government policy today. We didn’t even have our own country 100 year ago.

I’m not dismissing the flag at all. I don’t agree with supporting terrorist groups. But I also don’t think that the existence of the flag indicates what’s at the root of our government policy on this matter.

yes that's me told 😂

That's you told @Twiglets1!

You’re wrong @Twiglets1. What Israel is doing now is making things far worse.

How else can Israel destroy Hamas without killing them? They don't negotiate in good faith, if they did they would have agreed to release all hostages, disarm and leave Gaza a very long time ago.

Hamas still remain, yes. Thousands of them seem to be hiding in Gaza city which is why the IDF are now targeting Gaza city.

Victim blaming nonsense re blaming Israel for 7/10 attack.

Israel can't end the war until Hamas are destroyed or agree to leave Gaza - it's that simple.

“Israel could also end it tomorrow”
The killing of civilians is not a requirement for dismantling Hamas. Israel chooses collective punishment- cutting food, water, and medicine, bombing homes and hospitals- which is a war crime. Targeting civilians does nothing to weaken Hamas’ military capacity.

“If they allow Hamas to remain, there will be another 7/10”
Israel has bombed Gaza relentlessly for nearly a year, killing over 60,000 (?) Palestinians (20,000+ children), yet Hamas still remains. Military campaigns have historically strengthened Hamas by deepening despair and leaving no political horizon. Even Israeli security experts have acknowledged that there is no military solution without addressing occupation and Palestinian rights.

“Unlike Hamas, Israel values the lives of their citizens”
If Israel valued its citizens’ safety, it would have prevented 7/10 by heeding repeated warnings (including from Egypt) and by addressing the unsustainable blockade of Gaza. Instead, Netanyahu admitted he preferred Hamas in power to block a Palestinian state. That policy choice endangered Israeli citizens.

“Future Israelis at risk of Hamas raping/killing/kidnapping”
Civilian protection doesn’t come from extermination campaigns. It comes from political resolution. Decades of occupation, siege, and expansion of illegal settlements have fuelled militancy. Every credible international body- UN, ICJ, human rights orgs- has said Israel must end collective punishment if it wants security. Killing tens of thousands of children guarantees future cycles of violence, not safety.

Israel could end mass civilian killing tomorrow. Continuing genocide isn’t “protecting Israelis,” it’s prolonging insecurity for both peoples. True safety requires justice, not annihilation.

And I’m not minimising antisemitism- it’s real and serious. But criticism of Israel’s actions isn’t the same as hatred of Jewish people.

No one is minimising historic antisemitism- it’s real and horrific. But it’s a false equivalence to suggest that solidarity with Palestinians today is motivated by antisemitism, rather than by the images we are all seeing of mass civilian deaths, starvation, and dead children.

The reason the Palestinian flag is so visible right now is not because people hate Jews, but because Israel’s actions in Gaza have horrified the world. To conflate criticism of a state with hatred of a people does a disservice both to Jewish people and to Palestinians living through genocide.

To equate seeing that flag with actual persecution is really trivialising and dehumanising what Palestinian civilians are living through right now: children starving, bombed, whole families erased. That’s why people are flying it- not to target Jews, but to stand against genocide.

I understand that seeing the flag may feel uncomfortable for some, but the reality is that Israel’s actions should be causing far more discomfort than the sight of a piece of cloth.

Because they triggered this whole shit show by their actions on 7/10 and because they STILL haven't returned the hostages despite what this means for their people in terms of Gaza being destroyed and the loss of civilian life.

I don't personally accept that Israel are carrying out genocide but the IDF are killing thousands of Palestinian citizens. This would stop if Hamas would agree to release the hostages, disarm and leave Gaza.

You might say - Israel could also end it tomorrow. But I don't think they could really because if they allow Hamas to remain in Gaza, they will just be waiting for the next 7/10 at a later date. Unlike Hamas, Israel DO value the lives of their citizens and won't allow this situation to happen again & future Israelis to be at risk of Hamas raping/killing/kidnapping them.

@Everexpanding what have your posts got to do with recognising antisemitism in Ireland which is what we were talking about.

Obviously I am not saying antisemitism 100 years ago is proof of antisemitism today.

I was asked for examples of historic antisemitism.

what is proof of antisemitism today is people trying to downplay hostoric antisemitism, being defensive, pretending it didn't happen or wasn't important. Brushing it under the carpet. In the very same thread where people are arguing that affinity with Palrstinians is precisely because of a shared historical experience.

So the history of Irish colonialism counts.
But the history of Irish antisemitism doesn't.

Your post is a classic example of what Rachel Moiselle talks about and shows a complete lack of empathy. To have to daily walk past a flag which represents people who want to kill you and have actively particpated in the murder of Jewish people because they are Jewish, is horrific. And the reason it is horrific is not the flag itself really but because others like you, minimise its effect. Its another step in the dehumanisation of a population and another sign to a Jewish person that they don't count.

Listen to Jewish people when they tell you it matters.

What on earth do you mean you cant do anything about a terrorist attack 2 years ago!? Hamas still hold hostages, still refuse to surrender, still terrorising their populatiin, sending the odd rocket. Why do they get to just carry on?

Why are you more angry at Hamas who committed a terrorist attack than you are at a government who are carrying out genocide?

Surely both should be derided and because we can't do anything about the terrorist attack that happened almost 2 years but can do something about the genocide that is unfolding in front of us it makes more sense to focus on Israel, the genociders?

Or a comment on unconscious bias. Being human is a subjective experience, we all have reasons for thinking or feeling the way we do.

Your arguments are very one sided.

Compare the emotive language you use around the actions of the IDF & Israel government to the cool way you say “I do not agree with Hamas’s actions”.

You could be talking about a minor inconvenience for all the emotion in that sentence. And that is how you always talk about Hamas, when prompted to mention them at all.

No justification for terrorist attacks either @Everexpanding but you don’t post about Hamas hardly ever on MN. That’s what I mean by unconscious bias, it’s the things that bother us more than all the other awful things going on in the world.

For me I’m angrier at Hamas than the Israel government - that could be my unconscious bias at play.

I think it may be when it's the only conflict in the world we're interested in.

But if you are in the republic you will be concerned with different divisions to those in the UK.