Central Bank of Ireland confirms it will no longer approve sale of Israeli ‘war bonds’

About a state? Remarkable stuff.

But do carry on saying what you like - truth, lies, whatever - about Israel. I doubt anyone would report you, however, because you’d be expressing an opinion about a state.

That said, of course, Israel being the sole Jewish homeland does mean that people would be entitled to regard posters’ attacks on it as more suspicious of motive than attacks on, say, France or Italy or England. Or Ireland. But there you go.

Lies are regularly allowed. I didn't see the post but it must have been more than a lie.

Provably they just didn’t like you posting lies.

Ha! Someone’s had my comment about the Irish state reported and deleted!

That must be the very first time that criticism of an entire constitutional apparatus has been deleted on Mumsnet. Not a person, not a poster, but an entire sovereign state.

How guilty must the reporting poster feel about their own politics and prejudices?

Incredible.

Are you from Ireland @DenizenOfAisleOfShame?

Because I am and what you’re saying just isn’t true.

Still no evidence though?

Sure.

Yeah, terrible that. Stating the truth.

Have you any evidence as to how the state of Ireland and it's institutions are discriminating against Jewish people?

Straight in with the Ireland as a state is antisemitic @SharonEllis this is what I am referring to

I accept you did not say specifically that the Irish and Irish state are antisemitic and I am not denying that there is antisemitism in Ireland. For me, the defencesiveness comes from the constant accusations about Ireland being antisemitic from all quarters especially the current Israeli government when in fact there is little evidence to suggest it is more prevalent in Ireland than anywhere else yet we have become "notorious" for being antisemitic the messaging is out there Irish = antisemitic. I even see it on here Ireland being antisemitic has been discussed more than any other nation. Any poster that reveals their Irish the accusations start. So yeah I am a bit defensive about it because I do think there is more focus on Ireland then anywhere else with zero understanding from most as to why the Irish have always been supportive of Palestine, but I don't deny there is antisemitism in Ireland but I do not accept that it is worse than anywhere else or warrants the constant vitriol towards us.

I also did not discuss the firsthand experiences of antisemitism mentioned in the article because I would not deny that and didn't, I have already mentioned the issues with the article I had

Speaking of denial, I think, at present, Irish people are denying that anti-semitism is the reason they want Israel to stop bombing Gaza.

Because that’s what Irish people are being accused of…that anti-semitism is the reason they’re not supporting Israel’s actions.

These accusations are defensive nonsense aimed at deflection, of course.

Ireland isn’t any more (or less) anti-semitic than other countries that don’t face the same accusations. It’s because we spoke out against what Israel was and is doing, and spoke out early, that has singled us out for this criticism.

Rachel Moiselle is interesting in this regard. She says that antisemitism has never been extensive in Ireland (and neither have I or SSMontefiore said that it was) but the problem is the denial which she says is extensive. Interesting in the context of MN discussions, I think.

The Limerick program was extremely localised and widely criticised by various pillars of the Nationalist movement and the priest that instigated it ending up effectively banished. Ireland’s fist constitution gave specific protection to people of the Jewish faith. The problem that Irish people have is with government sponsored sectarian land grabs and systematic human rights abuses and war crimes

I have never said that 'the Irish' and 'the Irish state' are antisemitic. Neither has Simon Sebag Montefiore for that matter. How would you determine that a whole people and a whole state was antisemitic? So, not a slander repeated over and over. What I and he have said is that there is a long history of antisemitism in Ireland - obviously true.
I do find this defensiveness interesting - from you and other posters, and the article about the Limerick Civic Trust. All countries have antisemitic people in them. I would have thought that the process of confronting uncomfortable histories was something that Irish people were rather good at. I always hold up the example of Northern Ireland as an example of how people can face up to horrors in their past and move on. Yet on here there is so much defensiveness. Antisemitism has existed everywhere - why would Ireland be immune?
Ireland was one of the last countries in the West to recognise Israel and establish diplomatic relations. The Catholic Church as a whole has a long history of antisemitism really from the beginning, through the inquisition to less than glorious record in the second world war. Why you think Ireland would be immune from this influence is odd even if the power of the Catholic church has declined in recent years. The Limerick Boycott/Pogrom is again, an example.
Yet again, this whole discussion has been an example of not listening to this particular minority when they tell you that they have suffered discrimination. You dismiss it out of hand when a historian with Irish heritage tells you that his family suffered discrmination. I don't think you would do it for any other minority

Your first point is disingenuous. You did dismiss the article initially saying You seriously expect Irish people to trust the narrative of an English historian who writes for the spectator!

@SharonEllis it was the authors references to WW2 which annoyed me because if he had looked into Irish support for the allies at that time he would know as a state we were not supporting the Nazis is any way yet the article was worded to look like we were so anyone who didn't know how Ireland, as a neutral country, supported the allies they'd assume we supported Germany which is completely untrue. Irish people fought in the British army, we provided intelligence to the allies, The Irish Defence Forces escorted Allied airmen and seamen who had crashed or landed in Ireland across the border to British territory.

As to your other points I think you are expecting a lot from a magazine article

Yet you're using it as evidence for a claim the Irish and the Irish state are antisemitic. A serious slander repeated over and over but with only opinion and circumstantial evidence to back it up. Do you not think it reasonable to expect more when a nation state is being accused of something so serious?

Your first point is disingenuous. You did dismiss the article initially saying You seriously expect Irish people to trust the narrative of an English historian who writes for the spectator!
Its only with some considerably pushing that you have come up with an argument against the article that is more than your original ad hom that he is English.

As to your other points I think you are expecting a lot from a magazine article which tends to be focussed on a point and does not drift off into context or provide extensive references. Its not a thesis, or a book that has references. I think he would expect the readers of the Spectator to understand the general context of British/Irish history and therefore to know that the Irish would have reasons for not supporting the British at the beginning of the 2WW. Especially as this article was originally published in 1997 - before the Good Friday Agreement when discussions about Irish history were very common.

The substance of his article is about he Limerick pogrom/boycott, whereas the points you raise are about the context that he is putting it in. He obviously is not going write a fully referenced article about every one of those points. No magazine editor would publish it! If you know his work you know he has expanded on much of this elsewhere particularly in his excellent article on colonisation in the Atlantic.

The article cites more recent evidence

The article makes blanket claims with very little evidence. I am not denying that there is antisemitism in Ireland. But that's not what is being claimed. It is claimed the Irish state and Irish citizens are antisemitic which is an extremely serious allegation to make. Is it deep rooted in our institutions? do our laws discriminate against Jewish citizens? is every citizen antisemitic? Because this is what is being claimed. Or do we have similar levels of antisemitism as everywhere else? And if we do why are the Irish constantly getting singled out in this way?

Less keen to admit to having a bias against Jews

People don’t want to admit this because, for the majority, it’s not true.

There are racists and anti-semites and bigots everywhere of course and Ireland is not exempt. But to say that the majority are objecting to what is happening in Gaza, to objecting to the murder of innocent children, simply because they are biased against Jewish people…well, it’s just a very clear and poor attempt at deflection.