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Conflict in the Middle East

Israel committing genocide in Gaza, world’s top scholars on the crime say

681 replies

Everexpanding · 01/09/2025 17:15

An overwhelming majority of members of the world’s leading genocide scholars’ association have backed a resolution stating that Israel’s actions in Gaza meet the legal definition of the crime.
Eighty-six per cent of those who voted in the 500-member International Association of Genocide Scholars (IAGS) supported the motion. The resolution states that “Israel’s policies and actions in Gaza meet the legal definition of genocide in article II of the United Nations convention for the prevention and punishment of the crime of genocide (1948).”

www.theguardian.com/world/2025/sep/01/israel-committing-genocide-in-gaza-worlds-top-scholars-on-the-say

Gaza | The Guardian

Latest news, sport, business, comment, analysis and reviews from the Guardian, the world's leading liberal voice

https://www.theguardian.com/world/gaza

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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CaramelPecan · 02/09/2025 00:51

Everexpanding · 01/09/2025 23:57

@CaramelPecan @Lolapusht just to be clear are you denying a genocide is taking place? Do you think Israel is justified in all its actions, targetting civilian infrastructure? Killing close to two hundred journalist? Killing 63,000 Palestinians, with approximately 86% of those being civilians? Restricting aid and medical supplies ? Starving a civilian population?

Just to be clear, I think a war is taking place which Israel is justified in defending.

Civilian infrastructure is a legitimate military target if used for military activities. From the Red Cross:

The laws of war prohibit direct attacks on civilian objects, like schools. They also prohibit direct attacks against hospitals and medical staff, which are specially protected under IHL. That said, a hospital or school may become a legitimate military target if it contributes to specific military operations of the enemy and if its destruction offers a definite military advantage for the attacking side.
^^
If there is any doubt, they cannot be attacked. Hospitals only lose their protection in certain circumstances - for example if a hospital is being used as a base from which to launch an attack, as a weapons depot, or to hide healthy soldiers/fighters.

Despicably Hamas has done just that.

Terrorists posing as journalists yes. There seem to be a lot of journalists in Gaza.

Sadly civilian deaths happen in every war but I don’t believe 86% are civilians, no. Otherwise Israel wouldn’t even be trying to destroy Hamas would they?

I also don’t believe Israel is restricting aid, supplies or starving the population. I believe they have taken steps to try to stop Hamas using aid for its military purposes to continue the war, yes.

PrawnAgain · 02/09/2025 00:49

CaramelPecan · 01/09/2025 18:38

In that case, did Hamas not know that?

They obviously had first hand knowledge of Israel’s previous actions in Gaza?

Why on earth did they carry out the atrocities of Oct 7th then?

Are you saying they wanted a genocide in Gaza?

I think Hamas knew exactly how Isreal were going to retaliate. However this doesn't excuse Isreal's actions.

Many supporters of Isreal's genocide will argue that Hamas did it deliberately to make Isreal a pariah state which I think might well be true. However if this is true then surely the smart thing to do would be to defy their expectations rather than just dancing to Hamas's tune ....

The fact that Hamas may have planned this is not a defence. In fact it's actually another reason for Isreal to stop.

TooBigForMyBoots · 02/09/2025 00:49

It is genocide.

Netenyahu's government, along with the IDF is committing war crimes to exterminate the population of Gaza.

Shame on them!

CaramelPecan · 02/09/2025 00:30

Lolapusht · 01/09/2025 23:50

Commentary from a member of the IAGS who didn’t vote for the resolution. She’s been a member for 10 years. Apparently it was around 20% of the possible 500 voting members that actually voted for the resolution.

https://x.com/drsaraebrown/status/1962611572762910940?s=61&t=_cKTNp_TyAyzDViEOCJDFQ]]

Well that’s unsurprising.

Eighty-six per cent of those who voted in the 500-member International Association of Genocide Scholars (IAGS) supported the motion.

So 140 out of 500 voted and 120 out of 500 agreed. I’d be interested to know how many qualified professionals that number was comprised of.

What a very misleading OP.

The overwhelming majority of members didn’t vote at all.

Everexpanding · 01/09/2025 23:57

@CaramelPecan @Lolapusht just to be clear are you denying a genocide is taking place? Do you think Israel is justified in all its actions, targetting civilian infrastructure? Killing close to two hundred journalist? Killing 63,000 Palestinians, with approximately 86% of those being civilians? Restricting aid and medical supplies ? Starving a civilian population?

OP posts:
Lolapusht · 01/09/2025 23:50

Commentary from a member of the IAGS who didn’t vote for the resolution. She’s been a member for 10 years. Apparently it was around 20% of the possible 500 voting members that actually voted for the resolution.

https://x.com/drsaraebrown/status/1962611572762910940?s=61&t=_cKTNp_TyAyzDViEOCJDFQ]]

https://x.com/drsaraebrown/status/1962611572762910940?s=61&t=_cKTNp_TyAyzDViEOCJDFQ%5D%5D

Zonder · 01/09/2025 23:50

I am more than happy to join in with ‘Israel is the bad guy’ when I see evidence to that effect. I keep searching for it but can’t quite find it.

Just wow.

Would you like me to tie your blindfold a little tighter? You don't want it to slip so you accidentally see some facts.

TulipLavender · 01/09/2025 23:41

This is the 3 page resolution setting out the reasoning behind the assessment of genocide.

https://genocidescholars.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/IAGS-Resolution-on-Gaza-FINAL.pdf

Seems pretty clear to me. Now I think states need to be pressured to uphold the duty to prevent genocide. It's clear that Israel are not going to stop of their own accord.

In previous threads people have found it very insulting to be called genocide deniers - it will be interesting to see how many of them will volunteer themselves as such.

https://genocidescholars.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/IAGS-Resolution-on-Gaza-FINAL.pdf

Martymcfly24 · 01/09/2025 23:32

CaramelPecan · 01/09/2025 23:28

I have no doubt of Dr O’Brien’s credentials but am actually more interested in the qualification of the other members of IAGS who voted for this resolution as it not clear what they are.

Human rights activists, students, psychologists, museum professionals, artists, film scholars?

TBF I’m not sure what genocide scholar means either, she certainly doesn’t seem to have any legal qualification to decide on whether a genocide is taking place in accordance with legal parameters.

Not much reference to Hamas either, whose form of warfare has to be taken into account if you are to have an unbiased opinion IMO.

That wasn't the x you posted. It was disparaging her qualifications in the one you posted..

Who would have the legal qualifications to decide in your opinion.

CaramelPecan · 01/09/2025 23:28

Martymcfly24 · 01/09/2025 23:09

@CaramelPecan Dr Melanie O’Brien is Visiting Professor at the Center for Holocaust & Genocide Studies, based in Global Studies. Dr O'Brien's regular position is Associate Professor of International Law at the UWA Law School, University of Western Australia.
Dr O'Brien's work on forced marriage has been cited by the International Criminal Court, and she has been an amicus curiae before the ICC. She has been an expert consultant for multiple UN bodies, and is widely consulted by global media for her expertise on international criminal law. She has conducted fieldwork and research across six continents.
Dr O'Brien is the President of the International Association of Genocide Scholars (IAGS), and a member of the WA International Humanitarian Law Committee of the Australian Red Cross. She was a 2022 Research Fellow at the Sydney Jewish Museum & a 2023 Visiting Fellow at the Institute of Advanced Studies, University of Loughborough, UK.

This is the women he is criticising on X and puts quotation marks around the word "genocide scholar" .

But do tell me again how someone who writes for the Daily Mail and Fox News knows more than her.

Edited

I have no doubt of Dr O’Brien’s credentials but am actually more interested in the qualification of the other members of IAGS who voted for this resolution as it not clear what they are.

Human rights activists, students, psychologists, museum professionals, artists, film scholars?

TBF I’m not sure what genocide scholar means either, she certainly doesn’t seem to have any legal qualification to decide on whether a genocide is taking place in accordance with legal parameters.

Not much reference to Hamas either, whose form of warfare has to be taken into account if you are to have an unbiased opinion IMO.

Martymcfly24 · 01/09/2025 23:09

@CaramelPecan Dr Melanie O’Brien is Visiting Professor at the Center for Holocaust & Genocide Studies, based in Global Studies. Dr O'Brien's regular position is Associate Professor of International Law at the UWA Law School, University of Western Australia.
Dr O'Brien's work on forced marriage has been cited by the International Criminal Court, and she has been an amicus curiae before the ICC. She has been an expert consultant for multiple UN bodies, and is widely consulted by global media for her expertise on international criminal law. She has conducted fieldwork and research across six continents.
Dr O'Brien is the President of the International Association of Genocide Scholars (IAGS), and a member of the WA International Humanitarian Law Committee of the Australian Red Cross. She was a 2022 Research Fellow at the Sydney Jewish Museum & a 2023 Visiting Fellow at the Institute of Advanced Studies, University of Loughborough, UK.

This is the women he is criticising on X and puts quotation marks around the word "genocide scholar" .

But do tell me again how someone who writes for the Daily Mail and Fox News knows more than her.

CaramelPecan · 01/09/2025 22:50

Martymcfly24 · 01/09/2025 22:09

Author; Board of @HonestReporting
; Research reports for @NGOmonitor
@HJS_Org @fathomjournal
; coverage in Telegraph, Tablet, Fox News, Daily Mail, NY Post

That commentator sounds very unbiased. Look at his credentials, all very neutral.

Well, yes because obviously media orgs who’ve published this story as a headline haven’t bothered to fact check it, like a lot of the anti Israel propaganda that is published as fact. No one cares if it’s true or not so why would they bother?

Except organisations and people who want the actual truth.

Have you got anything to counter the contents of the thread the author posted or do you just want to dismiss it?

As someone who wants facts not opinion, I would like to know who these ‘genocide scholars’ are and what their legal qualification is, as it’s clear from the membership criteria that they are not all going to be qualified in this area.

I am more than happy to join in with ‘Israel is the bad guy’ when I see evidence to that effect. I keep searching for it but can’t quite find it.

Martymcfly24 · 01/09/2025 22:09

CaramelPecan · 01/09/2025 19:50

Not an answer to my previous post though is it?

Why do you think Hamas planned and carried out the atrocities of Oct 7th when they knew what Israel’s response would be?

This thread sheds more light on the thinking behind this resolution.

x.com/Aizenberg55/status/1953457271695962316

Will they publish the professional qualification of the members who voted in favour, in the interests of transparency, as this is the membership criteria and anyone can join for $125 a year?

Become an IAGS Member
IAGS members are academic scholars, human rights activists, students, museum and memorial professionals, policymakers, educators, anthropologists, independent scholars, sociologists, artists, political scientists, economists, historians, international law scholars, psychologists, and literature and film scholars. IAGS was formed in 1994 and currently represents 600 members from all continents. We encourage anyone dealing with genocide in a scholarly or professional capacity to join.

It would be interesting to see which members who voted are qualified and have the relevant competence in international or criminal law procedure to make this pronouncement.

Author; Board of @HonestReporting
; Research reports for @NGOmonitor
@HJS_Org @fathomjournal
; coverage in Telegraph, Tablet, Fox News, Daily Mail, NY Post

That commentator sounds very unbiased. Look at his credentials, all very neutral.

GladioliGreen · 01/09/2025 22:00

I'm glad more and more people are recognising it for what it is. The people of Gaza deserve to have what is happening to them loudly acknowledged.

Hopefully more members of the IDF will take note and refuse to take part in this any further before they are criminally liable for being complicit. Just following orders is not a defence. If I were an Israeli parent of a young conscript I would be very worried about my child being in over their heads with this. A life stuck in Israel for fear of being prosecuted if you leave isn't one I would want for my children. The international community aren't going to forget this any time soon and are very keen to see justice for Palestinians.

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 01/09/2025 21:48

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Kakeandkake · 01/09/2025 19:53

A shameful genocide. I don't know how anyone can still deny it.

Lolapusht · 01/09/2025 19:51

CaramelPecan · 01/09/2025 18:21

It was it Oct 7th?

No, earlier than that.

Remember…it didn’t start on Oct 7.

CaramelPecan · 01/09/2025 19:50

Everexpanding · 01/09/2025 17:15

An overwhelming majority of members of the world’s leading genocide scholars’ association have backed a resolution stating that Israel’s actions in Gaza meet the legal definition of the crime.
Eighty-six per cent of those who voted in the 500-member International Association of Genocide Scholars (IAGS) supported the motion. The resolution states that “Israel’s policies and actions in Gaza meet the legal definition of genocide in article II of the United Nations convention for the prevention and punishment of the crime of genocide (1948).”

www.theguardian.com/world/2025/sep/01/israel-committing-genocide-in-gaza-worlds-top-scholars-on-the-say

Not an answer to my previous post though is it?

Why do you think Hamas planned and carried out the atrocities of Oct 7th when they knew what Israel’s response would be?

This thread sheds more light on the thinking behind this resolution.

x.com/Aizenberg55/status/1953457271695962316

Will they publish the professional qualification of the members who voted in favour, in the interests of transparency, as this is the membership criteria and anyone can join for $125 a year?

Become an IAGS Member
IAGS members are academic scholars, human rights activists, students, museum and memorial professionals, policymakers, educators, anthropologists, independent scholars, sociologists, artists, political scientists, economists, historians, international law scholars, psychologists, and literature and film scholars. IAGS was formed in 1994 and currently represents 600 members from all continents. We encourage anyone dealing with genocide in a scholarly or professional capacity to join.

It would be interesting to see which members who voted are qualified and have the relevant competence in international or criminal law procedure to make this pronouncement.

DancefloorAcrobatics · 01/09/2025 19:36

CaramelPecan · 01/09/2025 18:38

In that case, did Hamas not know that?

They obviously had first hand knowledge of Israel’s previous actions in Gaza?

Why on earth did they carry out the atrocities of Oct 7th then?

Are you saying they wanted a genocide in Gaza?

It's always a good thing to hand responsibility for ones actions to someone else.

My DC are masters at this.

I would expect Israels leadership to be more grown up- but then, they have proofen over and over again that they have lost touch with their own humanity.

Genocide is Genocide, nothing can justify this.

Lunalara · 01/09/2025 19:32

People have been arguing that the UN is not valid because it is antisemitic. It wouldn’t surprise me if they did something similar here. Or simply argue that the Palestinians “had it coming”. I really want to help people see how unfair things are for Palestinians, but it feels like a waste of time. Either way, it seems as though Palestine as we know it is doomed to be wiped out.

Beachtastic · 01/09/2025 19:29

Lunalara · 01/09/2025 19:19

I wonder whether there are still people who will say that these institutions are lying.

How can an academic opinion be a lie?

Lunalara · 01/09/2025 19:19

I wonder whether there are still people who will say that these institutions are lying.

Everexpanding · 01/09/2025 19:18

That is true, I don’t think the actions of either side are justified.

OP posts:
quantumbutterfly · 01/09/2025 19:06

Everexpanding · 01/09/2025 18:42

Look what you made me do ! Where have we heard that before

Isn't that what we hear from some quarters to excuse hamas 'resistance' on 7/10?