Israel committing genocide in Gaza, world’s top scholars on the crime say

And, to clarify my point, I’m not saying this all Israel’s fault either. Hamas and/or any Palestinian violence towards Israeli citizens is unacceptable. I just think even going back to those early issues, the Palestinians were justified in their concerns.

The Jewish immigrants fleeing Europe were victims themselves but their appearance in that area with British backing, even if justifiable and understandable, still had an impact on Palestinian people and caused anger. It wasn’t just a case of landlords selling off land and making money, people lost their homes and livelihoods in those sales and that’s how anger can begin and grow. And that same issue continues today but with a heap of generational trauma/context to heighten anger and hatred and violence.

Scholars? Do me a favour. They will be asking ‘village elders’ next. Absolute bullshit, as usual.

Arab Palestinians were angry at the British and newly arrived Jews because of increased Jewish immigration.

My point is its just not correct to frame the problems in the West Bank and Gaza as a result of Israeli oppression. The hatred goes back further.

Its always been there, since the first Jews fleeing persecution in many places in Europe etc started buying land of wealthy Arab landowners. Its not new. Its not as a result of recent Israeli policy. Its old.

None of that sounds like brainwashing to me. But Israel does have very visible problems with racism and the extremist settler movement (including the members of the Israeli government who support it and the IDF troops who supervise the violence) is doing more than telling their children to fear Palestinians. It is modelling violence, terrorism and making dehumanising Palestinians normal/lawful.

I’m not saying that Hamas are teaching peace and love but putting the blame on one side is why this issue will continue. We all know that Hamas sat terrorists. But both Israel and Palestinians need to be more moderate and some of that, as you rightly said, starts with education but also from adults on both sides not being extremists.

Trying Palestinian children under military law and settler children under civil law creates inequality, underfunding Arab Israeli schools creates inequality, Israeli textbooks that dehumanise Palestinians breeds mistrust hatred and effectively segregating education breeds mistrust and hatred. Palestinians in the WB are just as justified fearing settlers. They are extremists who use violence to illegally take land from Palestinians, build on the land and then ban Palestinians from that land. You should also research the permits people need in the WB to build anything/access their farmland and why this might add to feelings of anger, resentment and hatred.

Re conscription, I understand why Israel thinks it’s justified but I think it is horrendous forcing anyone to be violent and the related trauma the reservists have, especially the young ones, is something I have a lot of empathy for. I cannot imagine being forced to fight. I’m sure it has left a horrendous scar on many individuals. Sadly, I don’t think there is the mental health support in place to help those individuals (and their families) recover from that experience and I’m sure that adds to the collective trauma Israel has.

If Israel had not retaliated, do you think Hamas would have stopped at one attack? They promised they'd do it again. And again....

Well here is one Israeli lady talking about how Israel’s education system brainwashes children by displaying a map of Israel, the declaration of independence, and the Israeli flag in classrooms, teaching the children stories from the bible and giving them the feeling to fear Palestinians as they want to kill them, which is kind of open to interpretation if you take Hamas, some Palestinian, and before that the PLO’s, statements seriously together with the history of terrorist attacks and vows to annihilate Israel. I guess forewarned may limit the element of surprise?

Bit of a marked difference though from being taught hate Jews, that they will shoot them and want to die as a martyr fighting them, as from the previous video I linked.

She also mentions at the end about ‘indoctrination’ to join the Army, which as Israel has always had mandatory national service, and many countries NOT surrounded by hostile countries and terrorist organisations still do, raises concerns that the below list of countries indoctrinate their children in the same way and this should perhaps be raised with their governments (except North Korea probably):

• Austria, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, Greece, Latvia, Lithuania, Norway, Sweden, and Switzerland.
• Singapore, South Korea, North Korea, and Taiwan.
• Eritrea and Iran.
• Brazil.

A totally fair point but, again, I’d ask why that revolt began: what were the Palestinian angry about at that time? There’s always context and it needs to be analysed. We can’t just stop at ‘Palestinians hate Israeli/s/jewish people like this set in stone. Or insist it’s all just terrorism and antisemitism and Israel have played no role in it all. Happy people don’t get radicalised so why could vehicles for hatred like Hamas gain traction in Gaza? Thinking about this and discussing it doesn’t mean we condone violence or that we excuse horrendous acts against humans but it might help explain it and that is how we begin to stop the cycle of radicalism.

Well, the whole story about why most of the membership didn't vote is in the public domain, you could find it in 3 minutes, which is how long it took me. The backstory also explains why members were not allowed to debate it, and some never received notification that a vote would be taking place... makes you think, doesn't it?

I'd mention at this point the Arab revolt of 1936 - 39. I dont think its fair to suggest Palestinian hatred towards Jews / Israel is as a result of anything recent. Its been there for a very, very long time.

I do understand people worry that current situation increases hatred between the 2 parties- but I think its important to accept its not a recent thing.

Yes - education is also important for both Israeli and Palestinian children if there’s any chance of peace. Both are vulnerable to extremism and there are numerous videos we could both share of children on both sides who are repeating the hatred that adults have told them. So why are the adults so angry? Children don’t come up with this stuff themselves.

This is a really well thought out analysis which encapsulates my thoughts exactly.

https://x.com/KonstantinKisin/status/1843352287525384452

Classic use of strawmanning to avoid actually answering the points made.

I’d start with education!

Let me explain percentages to you - because you either don't understand them, or are being, well let's say, economical with the truth.
The truth is that the Association of Genocide Scholars had a resolution vote in which 86% voted that genocide was happening in Gaza... that must be a heck of a lot of people. Well no, there are only 500 scholars, of which 86% would number 430 people.
Problem - it was 86% of the members who voted.

And how many members voted? 24% apparently.
So 86% of 24% of 500 people is what? 107 approx.
So actually 21.4%.

Both those examples are shocking and lead me back to my previous questions. What on earth is happening to Palestinians in the West Bank that makes them so angry and violent? Palestinians are just people, like us, so what is happening for such a concentration of hatred towards Israel. As I said, Hamas is a vehicle for this anger and gives people a ‘cause’ (a disgusting one) but why so many angry people willing to kill? Because happy people don’t become terrorists. What has happened to them in their lives or what generational trauma do they have which leads to these acts? I would start off by looking into settler violence in the case of the West Bank.

I think you should investigate ‘Honest Reporting’ and decide for yourself if they are the right place to locate the truth (or something as close to the truth as possible). Likewise with commentators on X. You appear to have switched sources and be believing what ever they say instead. Apologies if that isn’t a fair conclusion but you do seem to have replaced a lot of reputable sources with biased sources and ones that are more likely to spread misinformation in your quest for the truth.

You say the shocking reactions to 7/10 and the unbelievable celebrations caught your attention. Did they make you wonder why people would be so full of hatred and anger? If you’re going to research this conflict, it’s pretty important to try to understand why such extreme views could take hold in an area and what the context is for so much anger and resentment in Gaza. Hamas is a vehicle for that anger and they massively exploit angry people but it doesn’t explain why there are so many angry people in a relatively small area.

I agree that there is lots of misinformation on X.

There’s also a lot of information not reported in the MSM.

I must admit I’ve read some stuff on there that I thought couldn’t be true but on looking it up through other sources, I found it was.

The Ramallah lynching was one. The PA’s pay for slay program was another.

Is there anything in the links I provided that you want to rebut as false?

I used to believe everything I read in the media and also accepted what influential humanitarian/government/non government /international organisations stated as facts, until I started researching this particular conflict a bit more thoroughly.

I didn’t know much about it other than vaguely remembering news reports about rockets being fired and Israel retaliating as it wasn’t an interest and was in a far away country.

The reactions to Oct 7th and the Free Palestine marches almost immediately afterwards, having seeing some of the ‘resistance’ efforts (the picture of Shani Louk in particular) and the celebration of Palestinians on their own videos, caught my interest though.

And it looks like X (the home of misinformation) is the reliable source we should be trusting over the NGOs and medics reporting starvation. At least now we know where we’re going wrong!

Yes but it’s been called things like ‘informing citizens of where to go’ under the guise of being the most moral army in the world.

@CaramelPecan
Of course you are more knowledgeable than the IPC. That much was predictable.

No, but powerful members of the Israeli government have so it’s a valid concern. And their actions to date match those statements so those who are ‘pro-Israel’ right now have to reconcile with the fact that they could be supporting the goals of the far right elements of the Israeli government.

I dont think anyone here has proposed or endorsed ethnic cleansing.