Does independent journalism exist in Gaza?

On October 13, a civilian convoy fleeing Gaza City as ordered by the Israeli military on a road identified as a “safe route” by Israel, was hit by an Israeli airstrike, killing 70 people and wounding at least 200. The Israeli military denied attacking the convoy. However, Amnesty International verified videos of the attack and concluded it was the result of an airstrike.

In relation to UNWRA constant allegations aren't evidence.

UNWRA had 13,000 staff in Gaza before Oct 7th. They delivered essential services such as health and education - critical for functioning of Gaza.

In Jan 2024 Israel made allegations about 12 unwra staff that they were involved in Oct 7th without providing any evidence. Unwra dismissed them immediately.

UN office of internal oversight - highest investigative body in UN launched investigation into allegations. They investigated 19 staff - the initial 12 plus 7 more who Israel also alleged in March and April 24.

In one case, no evidence was obtained to support the allegations, while in nine other cases, the evidence was insufficient to support claims of involvement. In the remaining nine cases, the evidence obtained by OIOS - if authenticated and corroborated - might indicate that the staff members may have been involved, and their employment was terminated in the interest of UNRWA.

So of 19 alleged - only 9 may have been involved based on evidence.

Even if it was all 19 - that's less than .1% of staff.

Despite the fact that it was so few staff,israel provided no evidence to substantiate its allegations and unwra immediately dismissed them anyway Israel asked other countries to stop funding Unwra.

So yeah to me, it seems very clearly to be a lie that UNWRA was infiltrated by Hamas and I believe it to be morally reprehensible that Israel has effectively 'killed' unwra on the basis of unsubstantiated lies.

In related world central kitchen - 3 vehicles in a convoy were hit with 3 seperate missiles.
The WCK had to communicate with IDF on its movement and get permission to move.

Israeli gov said they werent targeted deliberately- said that claim was absurd!

how do you hit a convoy of 3 cars with 3 seperate hits and it not be deliberate? How is that not a lie?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/International/world-central-kitchen-attack-on-aid-workers-gaza/story%3fid=108814150

A senior adviser for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu called claims that an Israeli strike on World Central Kitchen workers in Gaza was intentional "absurd," after the organization's founder said the deadly attack was targeted.

https://www.politifact.com/article/2023/nov/21/israel-hamas-war-what-we-know-about-beheaded-babie/

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-12-04/ty-article-magazine/.premium/hamas-committed-documented-atrocities-but-a-few-false-stories-feed-the-deniers/0000018c-34f3-da74-afce-b5fbe24f0000

Reports came from army commanders, Colonels, IDF spokesperson and even spokesperson to Netanyahu confirmed babies and toddlers were beheaded.

Are you saying that they won’t let journalists in because they are worried about their safety? Or worried that they will show Israel in a bad light?

I didnt see any previous threads about the beheaded babies on mumsnet.

On October 11th a spokesperson for Netanyahu told CNN that On Oct. 11, a spokesperson for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told CNN that babies and toddlers were found in Kfar Aza with their "heads decapitated."

Netanyahus x account showed graphic photos reportedly of infants killed,that he shared with Blinken and I believe that Biden only said that it was confirmed because he was clearly hearing that from Israeli officials.

Traumatised individuals from reservist soldiers to Zaka may have believed what they saw to be beheaded babies. However these reports of beheaded babies and toddlers were issued to the international media came from IDF spokesperson, IDf head of search and rescue and IDF Chief Rabbi.

I would have expected them not to confirm these claims without sufficient evidence and substantiation - it damaged their credibility.

I didn't mean you, sorry it was a remark made earlier 😊

I never mentioned beheaded babies. I just mentioned a factual event where it is accepted that Israel did lie. That's not sly cunning or wilful ignorance just a fact.

And yet that accusation of "Israeli lies" about the "40 beheaded babies" still gets trotted out constantly as though it proves their sly cunning...? This suggest more than just wilful ignorance.

The lies are why they shot the ambulance not where they were. So the whole "the lights were off"/acting suspiciously etc thing was only admitted after the video surfaced. They changed the story after the video was released.

Not sure what point you are making in your second paragraph. Of course Hamas lie, so does Israel. It's not a big conspiracy.

You said:

After they were caught..
**
What would have happened if no evidence came to light.

I was responding to your post where you stated the above so relevant to your response.

Obviously the IDF told the UN where they were so evidence would have come to light.

The Israeli Government and the IDF have been dismissed as liars, over and above Hamas, or any other government, on this forum from the very start of this war so I am interested to know where this comes from considering the centuries long history of blood libels directed at the Jewish people which it might be construed it originates from.

That's fantastic but completely irrelevant to the lies.

Given the IDF informed the UN of the burial site, that is a moot point.

After they were caught..

What would have happened if no evidence came to light.

Look we will agree to disagree there. As you can see from the post I linked earlier Israel are actively painting journalists as Hamas to justify their killing. I agree we don't have all the evidence and perhaps there is some just some of the info in the article was definitely based on social media

I know being a journalist means there should be more neutral opinions when reporting but Living in a warzone I cannot expect anyone to not have a strong bias. I cannot imagine reporters in London during the Blitz having a favourable opinion of the Germans. I imagine the same could be said for any Israeli who has been the victim of Hamas violence.

However we do agree that reporting is influenced by Hamas whether through fear or an allied belief system.

How was it a lie? They admitted it.

Well, the IDF have said that Hamas often infiltrated humanitarian convoys, using ambulances and paramedic uniforms to move fighters and weapons. This seems like a pretty obvious tactic for them to use. But I don't expect you to believe them! 😊

What do you think about the ambulance/aid workers. That was not a mistake and if the video evidence and not been discovered the lie would have continued.

Hamas are Iranian backed terrorists, what more can we say.
IDF whatever the press says are a western army.

I can’t see that any of what you’ve listed are evidence of Israeli government lies. From what I’ve seen if a mistake is made, it is investigated and owned up to.

What lies have they told about UNWRA and the WCK?

As for the 40 beheaded babies, is there evidence of the Israeli government actually stating that directly as from this article it wasn’t confirmed and Netanyahu stated there had been beheadings without clarifying whether adult or child.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/12/middleeast/israel-hamas-beheading-claims-intl

There is no doubt there were beheadings on Oct 7th, There are videos showing at least 3 taken by Hamas that I have seen myself. The first responders said they saw beheaded children (around 40 children were murdered on Oct 7th which could account for the misinformation) and there is nothing to say that is not true, could have even been from alternate means than a garden hoe or knife, like a grenade, RPG, gun etc.

Israel has not released a lot of footage from Oct 7th for obvious reasons and family permissions.

They have only just released the footage of the father being blown up by a grenade in front of his young sons, who he saved by throwing himself on it, and showing a terrorist in their home helping himself to a drink from their fridge while they are injured and in great distress, and one looks to be covered in their father’s blood.

I would imagine some are. But I don't think there is evidence for some of the ones mentioned in the article.

It takes a very valid argument but hinges it on information that is unproven .

But many of the things on your list are not "Israeli lies"?

For example, UNWRA is known to have been infiltrated by Hamas, and the World Central Kitchen acknowledged that their workers were put in danger because Hamas had been known to impersonate them.

But most of all, we've discussed the "40 beheaded babies" on these threads before, and unless you somehow missed all that, I really object to you listing it here. This was not "Israeli lies" but media confusion in the immediate aftermath of the 7/10 attacks, when deeply traumatised ZAKA volunteers were asked to describe what they'd seen at a time when everyone was still struggling to work out who was missing and what had happened to the victims based on what was left of them. A stack of charred remains with missing heads was misinterpreted, but the Tel Aviv pathologist later explained to the world press that bodies reduce in size when burned (so a teenage or adult body would look like that of a child), and that they would never know whether the heads had been removed by force or had fallen off when burned. (This is quite a common thing to happen when a body is burned.)

Grrrr, I hope that's the last time I have to type this fucking horrific gruesome information just to counter accusations of Hasbara.

No, you certainly couldnt use a BN selfie or IDF service as an excuse for killing an Israeli journalist because BN and the IDF are not terrorists.

For goodness sake Tulip! Theres no equivalence! Hamas are a terrorist organization who've murdered, taken hostages in the most despicable way. Theyve also done nothing for their own people. Worse than nothing, they've bought utter destruction and unfathomable suffering on their own people.

BN and the IDF are a legitimate government and a national army. Some are shits. Some of their policies have been terrible. They are most definitely not beyond criticism. But they are not terrorists.

Soon you'll be telling us Israel has taken hostages, and the IDF are acting like Nazis.

Stop with the false equivalence please!