Pregnant women in Gaza describe malnutrition and extreme distress caused by Israel's blockade

Did you know the IPC lowered its criteria for declaring famine just for Gaza City? Or does knowing that involve studying & winging it? Heaven forfend.

@Lolapusht

What date did they lower it?

Do share the pdf you are talking about.

Oh come on. Hamas caused the war, have refused to surrender, disrupted aid and food supplies. There is plenty Israel is responsible for and plenty they have done wrong but it is ridiculous to pretend Hamas have had no role to play in this situation. How disgraceful to absolve them of responsibility.

Way to foster intelligent debate 🙄

Do you really think making comments like that is helpful or do you just not care? I have formed my opinions by looking at a variety of materials from a variety of people. So yeah, I studied.

I could have lobbed equally pejorative comments at many of the pro-Palestine posters on this thread but I didn’t.

Did you know the IPC lowered its criteria for declaring famine just for Gaza City? Or does knowing that involve studying & winging it? Heaven forfend.

Just harsh sanctions on Israel and their unilateral actions? People are going through unimaginable suffering and the quickest way for that to end is not by throwing avocados on the floor down your local Waitrose it’s by Hamas releasing all of the hostages and laying down their weapons.

If you think that pressuring the UK government is going to do anything to end this war you clearly have a very basic understanding of what is going on.

But hey, you do you.

Hamas did not cause the famine, the whole world knows that, we all know who blocked the food and medical aid.

Famine in gaza city. Not the whole of gaza. And not a word of blame for Hamas. Not a word.

What is interesting about this thread is how people don't engage with the substantive points made but just insult.

Hospitals get bombed when they are used by military forces.

Same with churches and schools.

There is food in Gaza. It is not being distributed which has nothing to do with Israel (other than they are currently fighting a war in the same area). Hamas/gangs control the aid so it’s not getting to the people. Aid that should be free is regularly sold in the markets.

There are restaurants and cafes operating throughout Gaza and there has been throughout the entire war. In an area roughly the same as Birmingham city, we are meant to believe there are people suffering from extreme starvation and others popping out for Nutella soaked crepes.

The horrendous images we have seen recently have been of poor children who have underlying medical conditions and their images should not be being used to suggest that their appearance is widespread throughout Gaza. I remember the 80s images of Ethiopia. They are not similar situations.

There is untold suffering in Gaza and not everyone has access to food as they should do. 2 million tons of aid have been delivered to Gaza since the start of the war. Where has it gone if not to the people who need it? If you’re going to argue that it’s somehow Israel’s fault, you are not on the side of the Palestinian people.

If you do not understand the practicalities of urban warfare then I will happily point you in the direction of military experts ho can explain the complexities of operating in a built up urban environment that still has its civilian population embedded. Remember All eyes on Rafah when Biden pressurised Israel to back off? Hamas used that time to booby trap every building. They’d seen how the IDF operated in the north so changed their tactics. IDF had to check and clear every building knowing there were IEDs in every building being monitored and remotely detonated by Hamas to maximise IDF casualties. Buildings would either be destroyed by the IDF or by Hamas. Either way, the buildings were going to be destroyed.

More bombs have been dropped on Gaza than people have been killed. It is horrific that these things even have to be mentioned, never mind discussed but no other war has such a low combatant:civilian mortality rate. And yet people use the fact that Israel carried out completely different military operations in different countries as some sort of evidence of war crimes. All does is show your lack of knowledge.

There will not be a peaceful two state solution for a significant period of time and thinking otherwise is incredibly naive.

Hamas saw to that.

Palestine doesn’t want a two state solution. If you think it does, post some links to Palestinians living in Palestine saying they want a two state solution using either current or historic borders and I’ll take a look at it. Due to the heinous barbarity of 7 Oct, I completely understand if more Israelis now don’t want a two state solution. They are the ones living with the daily missiles being launched at them by neighbours who would happily see every last Israeli killed. They are on the front lines constantly being lectured that they are genocidal baby killers as they once again run to the bomb shelters or try to disarm a yet another terrorist or try to get back the bodies of their people.

Hamas could end this particular battle but they don’t want to.

Netanyahu could end things, but if he withdrew the troops tomorrow and left an armed Hamas in Gaza what do you think would happen? They’ve already said they’ll carry out 7 Oct as often as it takes to eradicate all Jews. Why is Israel expected to accept that?

I watched the recently released footage of the Taasa family during 7 Oct. It was horrific. The one standout thing for me was the utter lack of respect for life, empathy and compassion the Palestinian terrorist had. He didn’t care who died or who suffered. They were Jews so not worth anything. How do you suggest that is dealt with because until it is, there will be no two state solution.

So yeah, Netanyahu et al are crap at PR, but I think they’ve got bigger problems to deal with at the moment.

In the absence of peace and while the war continues, I hope Netenyahu will stop committing war crimes.

Bombing hospitals!
Starving Gazans!
Why?

We know how amazing the Israeli security forces are. We witnessed it in Lebanon and Iran. Foreign countries, far away. Yet, the only way they can defeat Hamas, next door in Gaza, is by starvation and war crimes

A PP positioned the debate in terms of pro-Israeli vs pro-Palestine. I am pro 2 state solution. That means being pro-Israel.

Netenyahu and his government are not pro-Israel. They are ruining Israel nationally and internationally.

Trump's plan according to the Washington Post today is clearing out all of Gaza Strip to make way for a luxury resort and tech zone and America will take it over for ten years (I wonder who will take it after that....)

The article is behind a paywall but it's the first one on their website.

Hamas can fuck off but they will be taken the entire population of Gaza with them according to this plan. Nice bit of ethnic cleansing.

I don't think the neighbouring countries want to.open their borders. They have in the past eg Jordan and it's led to Palestinians trying to overthrow them. Egypt seems particularly reluctant too.

I think only Trump can end this. If Hamas would fuck.off and do the honorable thing and surrender then Trump wd be forced to end the war.

If Hamas agrees to Netanyahu’s demands including Hamas disarming and leaving Gaza, and he still refuses to sign a ceasefire agreement, then I will agree with you.

As far as I can tell at the moment, the talks are only a charade in that Hamas thinks they still have some bargaining leeway and they don’t. They had a chance to negotiate earlier in the war but they have lost that opportunity now.

I think they are reasonable too.
Hamas should disarm.

What I don't think is reasonable is his manipulation of the ceasefire talks so that they fail and his goals of there being no Palestinan state are realised

The talks are a charade.

They are probably the minimum any government would require but because he’s the leader of the Jews Israel he is made out to be some sort of demon, as he was very artfully portrayed in that beautifully appointed poster Hamas managed to create amid a genocide at the celebration parade of the murders of a Jewish mother and her babies, and an 87 year old man.

I think some actually took that picture as fact too.

Agreed. Hamas could try surrendering. If Netanyahu changes the goalposts well we'll deal with that at the time. I imagine the Israeli voting public would mostly be happy with surrender and disarm. As would the international community. It is odd how people on this board don't want to give it a try.

I can imagine that you do imagine that.

I think his demands are perfectly reasonable and it makes total sense for Hamas to disarm and leave Gaza rather than remaining- with weapons! - to start the whole cycle again.

How far back are you going to go and will your walk through history include what both sides have done or will it just focus on what Israel has done? Pre-1948 or just stop there?

This current war is absolutely Hamas’ responsibility. They knew exactly what would happen and were willing to sacrifice their innocent civilians. Instead of launching a terroir attack they could have demanded internationally hosted talks to thrash out a solution or any number of things other than a war starting act of violence.

Thank you @ScrollingLeaves . It is quite clear the intentions are the annexation of the area and nothing else.

Sorry @Everexpanding that was all separate from the idea of the thread which was trying to help Gazan women.

Haaretz today, August 31st.

Israel's Cabinet Not Expected to Discuss Hostage Deal Despite Hamas' Approval Two Weeks Ago
Netanyahu has not officially rejected the cease-fire proposal as of yet, but political sources have indicated that the current framework is 'irrelevant.' Minister Miki Zohar hinted that Israel is expected to issue an official rejection soon.
…….

The Israeli security cabinet is not expected to discuss on Sunday a framework for a partial hostage release deal, according to several sources familiar with the matter.

Instead, the cabinet ministers are expected to focus primarily on progress in preparations for a military operation to take control of Gaza City. Even last Tuesday, the cabinet convened without discussing a deal, amid widespread protests across the country calling for the release of the hostages and despite Hamas having accepted the mediators' proposal two weeks ago.

According to a political source, no new decision on the matter is expected in tomorrow's meeting, after the decision to take over Gaza was approved last week by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and the smaller security cabinet.

Ministers will also discuss the intentions of several countries to recognize a Palestinian state during the UN General Assembly in September, as well as possible Israeli responses. These could include ministers' calls for annexation, imposing sanctions on the Palestinian Authority, or evacuating the Palestinian village of Khan al-Ahmar in the West Bank, despite the international criticism such a move would provoke.

So far, Prime Minister Netanyahu has not officially announced a postponement of the partial deal framework that Hamas agreed to about two weeks ago, nor has he presented a clear alternative plan.

However, political sources have indicated that the current formula is "irrelevant" from Israel's perspective.

Culture and Sports Minister Miki Zohar, who is not a member of the cabinet, hinted on Saturday on the Israeli program Meet the Press that Israel is expected to issue an official statement rejecting the framework soon. "There is a clear decision by the State of Israel, which will be communicated more explicitly in the coming days. Only a full deal is possible; there is no longer an option for a partial deal," Zohar said.

The framework approved by Hamas is an updated version of the "Witkoff framework" presented by the U.S. administration, based on principles provided by Israel. Sources explained that the formula approved by Hamas is almost identical to the version Israel supported until about a month ago.

The proposed framework includes the release of ten living hostages and 18 bodies of hostages during a 60-day cease-fire. Israel is expected to release, in exchange for the living hostages, 140 Palestinian prisoners serving life sentences and 60 prisoners serving sentences of more than 14 years. In return for each hostage body, ten bodies of Palestinians held in Israel would be released. The proposal also includes a partial withdrawal of the IDF from areas in northern and eastern Gaza, to a distance of about 1,000 meters from the border, except in Shujaiya and Beit Lahia.

So far, there has been no progress in the public track of negotiations with mediators Egypt and Qatar. A political source reported last week that Netanyahu decided to dispatch the Israeli negotiation team "once a time and place for the talks is set." However, no progress has been announced. Last week, Egypt and Qatar placed responsibility for the delay in the negotiations on Israel, citing its slow response regarding the framework.

During the weekend, it was announced that the bodies of hostages Ilan Weiss and Idan Shtivi were retrieved from the Gaza Strip, lowering the number of hostages held in the enclave to 48.

I would imagine if Hamas agree to disarm he will change the conditions again.

The only propaganda wins Hamas are making are due to the actions of himself and his government. Now that aid is being shut off to Gaza City an area already in famine the images coming from there as well as the death toll are going to be horrendous.

I know he hasn't responded and he obviously isn't going to. He had already listed his new requirements for a ceasefire which included Hamas disarming and leaving Gaza, and the proposal that Hamas agreed to did not meet Israel's requirements.

I said months ago that the longer this goes on, the worse it is going to be for Gazans and this has proved to be the case. Netanyahu doesn't get softer in his conditions as more Hamas leaders and militants are destroyed, he gets tougher.

Any other army losing so badly in military terms would have surrendered by now and accepted they have no option but to accept poor terms such as Germany had to do. But Hamas refuse to do that because they are making some propaganda wins at least and that seems to be their primary concern.

(Where’s that goose meme when you need it?!)

But he hasn't even responded?

And these were conditions that Israel had agreed to previously.

Seems to be moving the goalposts to set up for failure.

I think Matt Miller was correct in his statements that Netanyahu was sabotaging a deal.