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Martymcfly24 · 30/08/2025 15:31

@Everexpanding I actually saw that article in the journal and said I won't post that because I can see the accusations of becoming pregnant starting.

The situation will worsen for any women in Gaza City as Israel is halting aid going in there/air dropsnso I imagine any heavily pregnant women and their babies unable to evacuate will die soon.

Stripes56 · 30/08/2025 15:29

SharonEllis · 30/08/2025 15:06

No quite the opposite. I believe all people have agency and are able to make choices. I don't presume that all sex is coerced in Gaza and haven't even come close to saying that. But it is odd, don't you think, that educated women would choose to get pregnant and bring children into the world in this situation? Obviously they are not responsible for the war. But they are responsible for the choices they make. If they have indeed made that choice. I think you're naive to think its a free choice for all of them given the legal structure that doesn't protect women from rape very well, the well known propensity of men to rape vulnerable women in war, and the longstanding cultural pressure on Palestinian women to have babies (Arafat 's 'womb of the Arab woman is my greatest weapon' etc).

Globally the rate of unplanned pregnancy is 50%.

It is only Palestinian women who should be berated even though they do not have access to contraception.

So, to add to the list of things that Palestinian women should endure, they should not have the freedom to have sex as Israel chose to block access to food, contraception etc.

I wonder if this poster has any comments in the rates of fertility of some sections of the Israeli female population- or does she only question fertility rates of Palestinian women?

SharonEllis · 30/08/2025 15:28

TooBigForMyBoots · 30/08/2025 15:24

Women find comfort in sexual intimacy too @SharonEllis. Parents find hope, strength and love in pregnancy. These are natural human responses even in the most traumatic of times.

Yes I know that. I wrote that above at least once. It doesnt have to result in pregnancy.

TooBigForMyBoots · 30/08/2025 15:27

Mobile maternity units are in use @Comedycook.

Everexpanding · 30/08/2025 15:25

@runningpram i am not familiar with the lid dems position or how much pressure they could bring to bear but will look into it.
there are Jewish organisations campaigning too, I am not overly familiar with them but might be of interest to those who are opposed to Israel’s current actions but are also concerned about any possible anti-semitism

jfjfp.com/who-we-are/

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TooBigForMyBoots · 30/08/2025 15:24

Women find comfort in sexual intimacy too @SharonEllis. Parents find hope, strength and love in pregnancy. These are natural human responses even in the most traumatic of times.

Comedycook · 30/08/2025 15:23

Im not surprised people have sex in a warzone....I do wonder where they find the privacy to do so?

I also was watching the news a few weeks ago and they were talking to a pregnant woman in Gaza...they said she was expecting a baby girl....I wondered if they are still able to have scans as how did they know the sex of the baby?

SharonEllis · 30/08/2025 15:20

Everexpanding · 30/08/2025 15:12

@SharonEllis
please stop trying to derail this thread

I'm just answering points put to me. If someone had just responded to mids point saying something empathetic about women who are pregnant and don't want to be we wouldn't be here, would we? I said the reasons were nuanced up thread. Its you and others who just wanted to reduce a complicated issue to Israel bad/Palestinians good, as usual.

runningpram · 30/08/2025 15:16

I agree op. I have been historically v pro
Israel and particularly immediately following October7 but I feel impotent in this situation.
I will support charities like Red Cross but is there anything political we can do?

I am not a leftie and v much think Israel historically as a democracy has been a good thing in the region. Is there a group that supports Israel and that is not anti semitic, acknowledges the horrors of October 7 but will stand up against Netanyahu and this nightmare?

The only group I can think of right now is the Lib Dems but I don’t know where they stand on the conflict.

Everexpanding · 30/08/2025 15:12

@SharonEllis
please stop trying to derail this thread

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SharonEllis · 30/08/2025 15:10

TooBigForMyBoots · 30/08/2025 14:54

I think its bizarrely racist to think Palestinian men can't control themselves.

Given that you are the one saying that these women are pregnant because their husbands are raping them you're being racist by your own definition @SharonEllis.

No, others are saying that having sex in wartime is normal, with starving women and knowing that the woman will have go through pregnancy and childbirth. That suggests to me implying that the men cant control themselves when we all know that its perfectly possible to have sex without making a woman pregnant. I have explicitly said that men in wartime the world over have a propensity to rape. I was explicitly not being racist about it. I said it was a male thing not a race thing.

SharonEllis · 30/08/2025 15:06

Stripes56 · 30/08/2025 14:48

So the answer of the impact of starvation and war trauma on women and their babies is not to have sex, and presume when it happens they are under coercion?

What about the more humane pathway of ensuring there was sufficient food, truly safe zones and contraception available.

Why do people who support Israel always want to portray Gazan women as subjugated? Some maybe - as in every culture. Palestinian women are highly educated.

https://www.stevesinnottfoundation.org.uk/women-and-girls-education-gupt-perspective#:~:text=Palestinian%20women%20continue%20to%20be,women%20comprise%2030%25%20of%20staff.

No quite the opposite. I believe all people have agency and are able to make choices. I don't presume that all sex is coerced in Gaza and haven't even come close to saying that. But it is odd, don't you think, that educated women would choose to get pregnant and bring children into the world in this situation? Obviously they are not responsible for the war. But they are responsible for the choices they make. If they have indeed made that choice. I think you're naive to think its a free choice for all of them given the legal structure that doesn't protect women from rape very well, the well known propensity of men to rape vulnerable women in war, and the longstanding cultural pressure on Palestinian women to have babies (Arafat 's 'womb of the Arab woman is my greatest weapon' etc).

Stripes56 · 30/08/2025 15:04

MumOfManyAliases · 30/08/2025 14:47

Israel is sending supplies to Gaza. Why on earth would they block them - especially if doing so makes them look bad? How do you know it isn’t Hamas that’s holding onto the food supplies to fuel their propaganda campaign?

This really does show lack of awareness of what has and is happening in Gaza. Perhaps this post also explains why some people think those criticising the situation in Gaza are simply being antisemitic. They may not be aware of what is apparent to most of the people world now.

This article has distressing pictures

www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-08-21/ty-article-magazine/starvation-is-everywhere-virtual-tours-of-gaza-clinics-expose-the-scale-of-the-horror/00000198-ccb7-dcce-a5bf-cdb714fb0000

Everexpanding · 30/08/2025 15:03

MotherofPearl · 30/08/2025 14:56

@Everexpanding

I have posted this link before, but it bears reposting I think. This is a small mutual aid charity delivering aid to civilians in Gaza. It’s a grassroots organisation and was featured on C4 news a few weeks ago, which is how I heard about it. It’s run by I think 3 siblings who were themselves displaced from Gaza last year. One of them is now based in the UK.

https://chuffed.org/project/123783-gaza-food-water-and-cash-aid

Thank you @MotherofPearl appreciated.

The point of this thread was to try and find ways that we can help

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MotherofPearl · 30/08/2025 14:56

@Everexpanding

I have posted this link before, but it bears reposting I think. This is a small mutual aid charity delivering aid to civilians in Gaza. It’s a grassroots organisation and was featured on C4 news a few weeks ago, which is how I heard about it. It’s run by I think 3 siblings who were themselves displaced from Gaza last year. One of them is now based in the UK.

https://chuffed.org/project/123783-gaza-food-water-and-cash-aid

Gaza: Food, Water, and Cash Aid

Reviving Gaza | Mutual AidReviving Gaza is a mutual aid initiative, focused on providing for the immediate and basic needs of people in Gaza.

https://chuffed.org/project/123783-gaza-food-water-and-cash-aid

Everexpanding · 30/08/2025 14:55

MumOfManyAliases · 30/08/2025 14:47

Israel is sending supplies to Gaza. Why on earth would they block them - especially if doing so makes them look bad? How do you know it isn’t Hamas that’s holding onto the food supplies to fuel their propaganda campaign?

From the Times of Israel
” Hundreds of rabbis worldwide have signed a letter calling for Israel to stop using starvation as a “weapon of war,” bring home the hostages and end the fighting in Gaza.
The letter, posted Friday and featuring the names of several leading rabbis across denominations, said the “Jewish People face a grave moral crisis.”
Its signatories, the text read, “are deeply committed to the wellbeing of Israel and the Jewish People,” but “cannot keep silent” in the face of Gaza’s growing death toll and rising malnutrition.

Are hundreds of Rabbis lying?

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TooBigForMyBoots · 30/08/2025 14:54

I think its bizarrely racist to think Palestinian men can't control themselves.

Given that you are the one saying that these women are pregnant because their husbands are raping them you're being racist by your own definition @SharonEllis.

MNBlip · 30/08/2025 14:54

SharonEllis · 30/08/2025 14:42

I'm not using a racist trope, don't be silly. You are closing your eyes to the possibility that women in this situation are being used. I think its appalling that any woman goes through pregnancy and childbirth in such situations and men should bear some responsibility. I think its bizarrely racist to think Palestinian men can't control themselves. That too is an age old racist trope!

Yes, we agree with you that it’s racist to think Palestinian men can’t control themselves…

Stripes56 · 30/08/2025 14:48

SharonEllis · 30/08/2025 14:08

I think its a bit nuanced. Its a known fact that the birth rate goes up in war time. Sometimes it couples having sex before the soldier goes off to war, though I dont know how much that applies here so much as its not a conventional war. Sometimes its to do with comfort in trauma - but that doesn't really apply if people are starving. Though despite what people would have you believe not everyone is starving. Often lack of contraception is an issue. But what sort of man gets a woman pregnant knowing she will be in a warzone? And a lot of pregnancies in war conditions are coercion - either manipulation or rape. Why anyone on a mothers discussion site thinks its wrong to raise this questions is completely beyond me.

So the answer of the impact of starvation and war trauma on women and their babies is not to have sex, and presume when it happens they are under coercion?

What about the more humane pathway of ensuring there was sufficient food, truly safe zones and contraception available.

Why do people who support Israel always want to portray Gazan women as subjugated? Some maybe - as in every culture. Palestinian women are highly educated.

https://www.stevesinnottfoundation.org.uk/women-and-girls-education-gupt-perspective#:~:text=Palestinian%20women%20continue%20to%20be,women%20comprise%2030%25%20of%20staff.

Women and girls education GUPT perspective

https://www.stevesinnottfoundation.org.uk/women-and-girls-education-gupt-perspective#:~:text=Palestinian%20women%20continue%20to%20be,women%20comprise%2030%25%20of%20staff.

MumOfManyAliases · 30/08/2025 14:47

Everexpanding · 30/08/2025 13:46

Beyond shameful comment, I doubt contraceptives are available in Gaza given that baby formula and medical equipment are routinely blocked by Israel

Israel is sending supplies to Gaza. Why on earth would they block them - especially if doing so makes them look bad? How do you know it isn’t Hamas that’s holding onto the food supplies to fuel their propaganda campaign?

Everexpanding · 30/08/2025 14:45

no one said that, they talked about human connection, and the desire born from fear for it

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SharonEllis · 30/08/2025 14:42

Everexpanding · 30/08/2025 14:38

Because I am concerned about them and their children being starved, bombed and managing birth and motherhood in a situation of dystopian horror. and I think you are using a racist trope to try and distract from this point.

I'm not using a racist trope, don't be silly. You are closing your eyes to the possibility that women in this situation are being used. I think its appalling that any woman goes through pregnancy and childbirth in such situations and men should bear some responsibility. I think its bizarrely racist to think Palestinian men can't control themselves. That too is an age old racist trope!

Everexpanding · 30/08/2025 14:42

I think it is not ok to put pregnant women and children through this horrifying situation, the point of the thread

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SharonEllis · 30/08/2025 14:39

usedtobeaylis · 30/08/2025 14:37

When people have been stripped of everything, absolutely everything, the last thing they have is each other. And people want them to forego that as well. For fuck sake.

The people having sex and finding comfort where they can are not in the wrong. The people forcing them into these conditions are.

There are ways to find comfort without making a woman pregnant. I think its appalling that everone apparently thinks it ok to put women through pregnancy and childbirth in this situation. Incredible.

Everexpanding · 30/08/2025 14:38

SharonEllis · 30/08/2025 14:34

Oh for goodness sake. White British soldiers rape in war time too. Men do it all over the world. Why do you have so little empathy for Palestinian women that you can't entertain the fact that some of them might not want to be pregnant in this dreadful situation?

Because I am concerned about them and their children being starved, bombed and managing birth and motherhood in a situation of dystopian horror. and I think you are using a racist trope to try and distract from this point.

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