For a start, I will say that I genuinely have no interest in siding with Hamas, or the IDF, or Palestinians, or Jewish people. I am only interested in better understanding all positions. I have just watched the interview, which turned out to be more of an argument between Kisin and Ammous from a year ago. One main point of disagreement and conflict between them is their differing views on Hamas intentions in Oct 2023.
Kisin believes that it was always Hamas plan to inflict terror and suffering to civilians on that days, whereas Ammous appears to think the intention, at least initially, was just to release Palestinian prisoners.
I read this on Wikipedia The attacks began with a barrage of at least 4,300 rockets launched into Israel[28][29][30] and vehicle-transported and powered paraglider incursions into Israel.[31][32] Hamas militants breached the Gaza–Israel barrier, attacking military bases and massacring civilians in 21 communities, including Be'eri, Kfar Aza, Nir Oz, Netiv Haasara, and Alumim. According to an Israel Defense Forces (IDF) report that revised the estimate on the number of attackers, 6,000 Gazans breached the border in 119 locations into Israel, including 3,800 from the elite "Nukhba forces" and 2,200 civilians and other militants.[33][28][29] Additionally, the IDF report estimated 1,000 Gazans fired rockets from the Gaza Strip, bringing the total number of participants on Hamas's side to 7,000.
It made me think: Could it be that the plan, as it was formulated before the attack, was for Hamas to attack the military bases mainly and but it got totally out of control?
Was it part of the plan that 2,200 civilians would also make their way to Israel and do whatever they did? Do we know the exact role these civilians took? Were they tasked to kidnap people, to rape and kill in the most vicious ways, or did their crossing was unplanned and their actions unexpected?
This is leaving me confused because if it was the case, for instance, that some, or even maybe the worse of the savagery was undertaken by these civilians, I can understand the IDF thinking that the war is not just about Nukhba forces but also about people who would not have been previously identified as dangerous, ie. Palestinian civilians who they are now killing indiscriminately.
Or is it that although classified as civilians, they actually belong to some 'group' that encourages violence against Israel?
Or were these civilians just going with the flow and did take part in some of the demonstrations but did not participate in any of the barbary?
Does anyone actually have any answers to these questions rather than reaching their own biased conclusions as both Kisin and Ammous are doing on that podcast?