It's not about genocide but about winning

War

Your question makes no sense.

They have been illegally occupying Palestinian territory since before you were born.

They have been vulnerable to radicalisation after decades of interactions with the Israeli government and being under terrorist rule themselves. To stop this cycle, Israel have to invest in the future of Palestinians. And by this I don’t mean just financially. I mean treating them as equal. Otherwise, a group with a new name will step in, show the displaced Palestinian people some humanity and turn their collective hatred back towards Israel. Terrorists aren’t all psychopaths. Some definitely are. But lots are just angry people who have lost everything and are looking for somewhere to ‘belong’. If Israel don’t want to do this again, they need to change their behaviour too.

In my opinion, this means the government needs to be more moderate, it shouldn’t interfere with the daily lives of Palestinians, it should collaborate with the any Palestinian government on security, settler violence and settlements must be banned and Islamophobia/racism in Israel needs to be addressed through education.

Legal opinions differ. Because in May 2025 the Guardian reported that No evidence has been seen that a genocide is occurring in Gaza or that women and children were targeted by the IDF, UK government lawyers have claimed, as a high court case opened into the handling of arms exports controls to Israel.

www.theguardian.com/world/2025/may/13/no-evidence-of-genocide-in-gaza-uk-lawyers-say-in-arms-export-case

It’s a little rich claiming Israel is the aggressor and has been for decades.

I’m 55. I don’t think I can remember a time when Israel’s neighbours weren’t lobbing missiles at Israel. I can’t list them all, it’s just a litany of Israel pushing back here and there while various neighbours try and destroy them.

With 7/10, the disgusting scenes distributed by jubilant Palestinians, and then the evident nesting of Hamas in among the UN, hospitals and so on.

I do not trust the UN they have lost all authority due to this and other issues. They have become a Trojan horse.

Genuinely what do you call the current going on in Palestine then?

At most it's ethnic cleansing

Fair enough, crack on then.

Palestinians haven’t suddenly been radicalised because of the war. They are indoctrinated from birth to hate Israel and Jews. They are taught it in school. Iran’s proxies literally proclaim: ‘death to America, death to Israel, curse to the Jews, victory to Islam’. Fundamentalist Islam doesn’t recognise Israel and wants its complete annihilation. The past 2 years haven’t suddenly brought about this hatred. It has been there since day dot.

This could (legally speaking) be found on the basis of things senior politicians have said, according to legal experts. That’s the only part of the genocide definition that will be arguable. The actions themselves are clear so it’s just down to intent.

This is my biggest fear - people with no hope, family, home etc. are exactly the type of people who are vulnerable to radicalism. Israel need to take the future of Palestinian people really seriously because they need to try and end any cycles of extremism. Destroying Hamas is pointless if it’s just replaced by a whole new group of angry, displaced people who think it’s their turn to retaliate after the damage Israel has done to their families, homes, infrastructure etc.

This is what the UN say about the intent element for genocide:

To constitute genocide, there must be a proven intent on the part of perpetrators to physically destroy a national, ethnical, racial or religious group. Cultural destruction does not suffice, nor does an intention to simply disperse a group.

Has it been proven that Israel intend to physically destroy a national, ethnical, racial or religious group? Remember that an intention to disperse a group does not count as genocide.

I don't think so.

Dont complain when all the orphaned sons and daughters come looking for vengeance.

The Israeli tactics mean the only strategy that ensures long term peace is genocide. Anything short of that leaves a generation with a score to settle over lost relatives or lost land.

Legally speaking, the intent element for genocide could also be fulfilled because of what a lot of powerful people in the Israeli government have said about Gaza and Palestinian people. I know people (including myself) have listed these before so I won’t copy and paste.

I also think it’s unfair to try and disregard the West Bank and what is going on there too. The illegal E1 settlement plans that have been confirmed last month should be a huge red flag that Israel isn’t necessarily aiming for peace with Palestinian people. The government make illegal settlements policy, the IDF and police supervise settler violence and arrest Palestinians who are literally fighting for their homes/land - you cannot ignore this when questioning what will become of Gaza.

Stating that this all ends if Hamas surrender is the same as saying this suddenly started on 7/10. Those statements both disregard decades of interactions between the Israeli government and Palestinian people.

If you’re not sure what I’m referring to, here are some examples:
Israel have…
Allowed settler violence (average 4 incidents a day) which has killed Palestinian adults and children
Denied permits for services like electricity and water,
Demolished schools with no plan for the children affected
Prevented building or improvements to schools and medical facilities,
Built roads on Palestinian land and then banned Palestinians from driving on them,
Denied them access to their own olive groves and farmland.
Tried Palestinian children under military court but Israeli children under civil law
The IDF have used schools for military purposes

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Israel can open the borders tomorrow and aid agencies will jump in and do what is needed to help civillians and need to be pressured to do that. Collective punishment should never be endorsed. Hamas not surrendering doesn't excuse forced starvation. It's not good enough to say Hamas can end this tomorrow blah blah, that is using civillian lives as bargaining chips and it's just as awful when the Israeli government does it as when Hamas do. Just feed the children.

Well said. It certainly is complex.

Exactly.

There's another of those interesting opinions.

What Israel is absolutely not doing nor is it intent on doing, is genocide. Israel's aim is to win, which means disarming of Gaza and the return of the hostages. Once that happens not one more Palestinian has to die. It's not about killing a people (genocide) but about winning at all costs.

Unlike most people posting on these threads (and the reason why I usually don't) I consider the conflict to be far more complicated than pat one-sided answers.

This statement, however, is legalistic bullshit. What the Israeli government is doing (not Israel) is the deliberate of targetting of people - whether combatants or not - with the intent to kill. You point weapons at people you intend to use those weapons and you intend to kill. 60,000+ Palestinians did not accidentally jump in front of guns or under bombs.

And I can't believe anyone is naive enough to think that no more Palestinians would die - those killed on the West Bank were people uninvolved in Gaza, peacefully living their lives in their homes.

What word you attach to wholesale slaughtering of civilians is irrelevant - and it is disgusting to try to argue such semantics. Hamas were entirely wrong in their attack on civilians and in the taking of hostages. So is the Israeli government. Nothing - absolutely nothing - justifies the wholesale slaughter of innocent men, women and children, or their starvation unto death. A fact which the Israeli government has sadly forgotten in that last 80 years.

So genocide which is the:

Genocide is violence or actions targeting an entire human group, such as a nation, ethnicity, race, or religious group, with the intent to destroy the group's existence, culture, or identity. Key elements include the destruction of a group's social cohesion, cultural identity, and collective existence, and it is a crime under international law, although perpetrators often deny their genocidal intent.

Intent to destroy a groups existence, culture or identity. Youve just proved yourself wrong - that's genocide!

How will Palestinians have a collective existence if they are driven out to other Arab nations.

Arab is like European - its made up of multiple distinct ethniticies.

This did not start on 7/10.

Would you say the same to Zelenskyy? Some would say Russia "Israel is more than willing for the war to end, and the government of Gaza, ie Hamas, can easily achieve that by surrendering"

"This is a losing war for Gaza, why not just surrender now before more lives are lost?"

Would you say the same? Should people capitulate because they're weaker? Should the stronger always be given licence to do what they like?

Again West Bank disproves this assertion that Israel just want peace and security.