It's not about genocide but about winning

You acknowledge their pain, accept their suffering, replace their terrorist leadership with a new power, have Arab nations help rebuild with the billions of funding they have received, and launch a major deradicalisation programme. @Montysmoon

The only effective deradicalisation programme will have at its core, a Palestinian state.

No, it’s not like saying murder happens everyday so what’s the big deal.

All deaths in war are a big deal, whether they are as a result of war crimes, or not.

People dying in war due to military intervention that is not considered a “war crime” isn’t okay either.

So many posters on this board keep repeating “war crimes” as if it means something significant, however, war crimes are symptomatic of every single war.

A poster didn’t even think Russia had carried out war crimes in Ukraine.

What does that say about the discourse around this conflict?

That's a matter of opinion but I'm glad you acknowledge that it needed translating as the original sentence made no sense.

I agree.

Another key difference, is that Ukrainians have been taking shelter in many underground structures.

Hamas haven’t allowed any civilians to take shelter in their tunnels.

However, the person I quoted said that Russia hadn’t bombed hospital in Ukraine.

But they have.

Russia have carried out many war crimes in Ukraine.

That doesn’t mean we have to support or condone them. It’s like saying murder happens everyday so what’s the big deal?

A key difference is that the population of Gaza are effectively trapped in a much smaller area. The displaced people of Ukraine have widespread European support and because of this some have sought shelter outside of Ukraine. Others move to other areas of Ukraine to safer areas. Aid is readily available for those who need it. The huge number of internally displaced people aren’t trapped in the conflict zones. It is still war. It is still brutal. It is not acceptable and many people will be terribly traumatised by what they have seen and what they have lost.

But Gazans don’t have these same freedoms. They are stuck in the midst of conflict between two sides that seem to have no regard for their safety, they have been displaced numerous times, aid is scarce, leaving isn’t possible, support is split, medical infrastructure is destroyed as is educational infrastructure, agriculture, water systems. The fact so any people are contained within such a small area whilst receiving less than minimal aid means conducting war the ‘usual’ way automatically means way more civilian casualties in Gaza. Personally, I think you have to adapt fighting to try and limit the number of civilian deaths. International humanitarian law agrees. Israel must take “all feasible precautions to minimise harm to civilians and civilian objects.”

There have been many Islamic terror attacks in the West.

Israel wasn’t a driving force behind any of them.

Oh no I must have translated it incorrectly as you got the answer wrong this time! Silly me

Radical Islam is empowered by an Israel which occupies Palestine and is more of a threat to the West as Israel takes more land and power from Palestine. The best way to reduce the threat of Radical Islam is for Israel to agree a peace deal and removal of its control from OPT and Israel to stop attacking and occupying its neighbours (it also occupies parts of Syria).

Israel are exaggerating this radical islam narrative to give them the opportunity to have greater control and expand the territory they control.

War crimes happen in every war.

Can you name a war where war crimes weren’t committed?

I agree with you OP.

I fully accept that Israel has committed war crimes in Gaza.

War crimes are an inevitable outcome of war. They happen in every war. Such is the nature of war, and fighting a war.

It’s not surprising, nor exceptional, and Israel is not an outlier in this respect.

The only exceptional thing in this conflict, is that Hamas are also carrying out war crimes in Gaza.

I completely reject that Israel is committing genocide. Putting aside the fact that people have been throwing “genocide” at Israel for decades to try make it stick, I don’t believe this conflict is anywhere near to the threshold of genocide, nor is the intent there.

Israel paused fighting to allow Gazan children to be vaccinated against Polio, for fucks sake.

The language used is designed to be deliberately inflammatory, taking words of justice, and using them as weapons.

Look at how quickly people have thrown out the definition of the word “hostage”, to now refer to detainees held by Israel as hostages. This is because Hamas took actual hostages on 7/10, and people can’t be having that used against “the cause”.

It's actually a war crime. Even in war it shouldn't happen.

War.

How would you describe the situation in Palestine right now?

Yes, they are. They do that in order to justify the genocide. Previously, they denied it was happening at all.

Great - sound like we’re in agreement about step 1 and 2.

Now step 3. Or maybe 2b.

• remove far right members of Israeli government who have made disturbing/dehumanising comments about Palestinians
• Allow Palestinians to rule themselves including allowing free and fair elections. Do not force a government upon them.
• collaborate with Palestinians on security
• remove WB settlements and take a hard line on settler violence
• Allow Palestinians in the West Bank to build, farm, move, meet etc without need for Israeli permits
• Use education to deal with racism/segregation re Israeli Arabs
• Try Palestinian children under civil law not military law (like Israeli children)

I’m sure there are more but my point is that Israel also need to reflect on what they are doing in order to actually tackle the problem of extremism. That means removing extremists from their government, not supporting/condoning/funding terrorism, treating Palestinians as equals and working on issues of racism within their own communities.

Genuinely what do you call the current going on in Palestine then?

Perhaps you can translate this sentence then.

Are you serious?

Yes it has! Of course it has. It’s war.

What does war look like to you?

Terrorists aren't all psychopaths. Terrorists are made, not born.

???The whole world population has grown over the last 10 years. Doesn't mean Isreal isn't attempting to kill Palestinians.

Just because it is difficult to answer or you don't want to answer it doesn't mean the question doesn't make sense

Kill an entire population? The population of Gaza has risen over the past 10 years. So much for a ‘genocide’.

Even so, starving and bombing a population of people is not going to work.

We're screwed either way.

Because you can’t / don’t see the bigger picture of the threat of radical Islam and Islamic terrorism, which is a major concern for the West. If Iran has nuclear capabilities, and the Iranian regime has publicly stated its hatred towards the US and its intent to destroy Israel, then quite frankly we are screwed.

Yes. Exactly.

You can't kill an entire population to make your people safe. You just make it more likely your people will be killed in the future.

Surely this is governing 101. Treat people - all people - like humans who are inherently worthy of respect and dignity. You can't fucking starve them and expect that they'll come around to seeing things your way. That's psychopathic!