It's not about genocide but about winning

Type into AI 'Does the Israeli occupation of Palestinian Territories fuel Radical Islamic Terrorism' and see what it tells you.

Of course there are other reasons such as the Iraq war and US imperialism. But it helps Israel to push fear of Radical Islam so that Israel are invested in as a bulwark against radical islam when actually the reason for radical islam is Western involvement in the middle east and Israel and the west would be more secure if there was an agreed 2 state solution, an end to occupation and a stop to further western military involvement in the middle east.

I answered above.

The BBC is more unbiased than the UN and so is the British government.

Many of the counties that make up the UN are very biased against Israel like for example, Iran and Pakistan.

This isnt just war.

So many people (Doctors and Humanitarian Aid Workers) though who have been to Gaza and have also worked in Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Yemen etc have said that they have never seen anything as bad as Gaza. In a war most civilians have the chance to flee to safety.

Gaza has the highest number of child amputtees in the world.
Humanitarian aid workers had to coin a new acyrnym in Gaza for wounded child, no surviving family.
Which other war have no international journalists been allowed in? - none.
Which other wars have quadcopters shooting bullets into children in tents?
Which other wars are half of pregnant women malnourished?
Which other wars have all hospital facilities been deliberately bombed and destroyed?
In which other war is baby formula being prevented from being allowed in?
In which other war have hundreds of telegram social medias been posted of the occupying army dressed in the underwear of the female civilians and filmed deliberately destroying their houses and laughing about it?
In which other wars have disabled men been attacked by dogs of the occupation soldiers and left to die?
In which war have 15 paramedics and rescue been rounded up and tied up and executed and buried in a mass grave?
In which other war have there been protests from the civilians of the occupying side about the right to rape prisoners and the discussion about the right to rape prisoners taking place on tv and in the knesset?
In which other war have the enemy forces cut off electricity, food and water to the civilians of the other side?
In which war have ambulances repeated been attacked - video evidence of ambulances being attacked and then buried which only came to light because footage from a victim murdered was found?
In which war have more than 270 journalists been killed?
In which war has evidence been found of the repeated deliberate targeting of humanitarian aid vehicles?
In which war have dogs been systematically used to maul and even rape the enemy?
In which other war have renouned surgeons been detained in prison and raped to death?
In which war have people been ziptied and bulldosed alive or bulldosed in tents?
In which war are children so psychologically damaged from the constant (with very little respite) aerial attacks and aerial noise that hear constantly that they shake with fear every night?
In which war have families been displaced and have to move 10 times?
In which war have medical workers had their family deliberately targeted?
In which war has the enemy mocked a real baby death as a fake 'doll' and alleged 'Pallywood'?
In which war have tanks driven over 300 bullets into car of a 6 year old girl on the phone to the red crescent who negotiated with the army for an ambulance to be allowed to get her and the ambulance and 2 paramedics were subsequently blown up and the army lied about not being in the area but clear evidence from satellites shows they were?
In which other war have soldiers forced medical staff to evacuate hospitals leaving premature babies to die in incubators?

In which war have the UN and all humanitarian infrastructure been so attacked and put at risk and blocked that they cant adequately function?
In which war have 80 percent of houses been destroyed?
In which war have starving people queuing for aid been routinely shot at?
In which war have 118 been killed and 760 injured after enemy forces opened fire on people seeking aid from food trucks?
In which war have numerous people including children have had to have limb amputated without anaesthesia?

Ive worked for years in international medical humanitarian organisations in some of the most insecure places in the world and i can tell you that this is not how a normal war looks. Yes, war does include some horrible things and war crimes do take place but not to this level and there is normally a level of respect for civilians and humanitarian actors, medics and structures. Its certainly not how civilised countries in the 21st century should conduct their wars.

This isn't just war - this is the worst dsytopia - a 22 month long horror - we cannot allow this to become the new norm for how war can be?

If we allow this to become just the way war is done then we as the human species deserve a very short future on this planet.

All of the above can be clearly evidenced.

Some people prefer to take the view of more unbiased sources than the UN which is known to have an anti Israel bias. Different organisations believe different things.

What sources do you think are more unbiased than the UN @Twiglets1? Which ones do you trust?

I haven't found any yet that are completely unbiased have you?

Even the BBC most people think is biased (I use them a lot for information though as at least they make some effort to appear neutral in their reporting).

What sources are not biased?
In your opinion?

I think we will have to agree to disagree as I don’t think certain elements of this war are ‘just war’.

• The widespread bombing/demolition of basically all of Gaza’s infrastructure. The bombs are dropped, then the army roll in and follow up with controlled demolition of pretty much everything left.
• The withholding of aid
• The limiting of aid
• The militarisation of aid hubs, increasing civilian injuries and deaths

I think these factors/elements stray beyond the impact of war (which, as you said is still devastating in its own right). I think dismissing the above as just part of war ia a slippery slope for future conflicts. As flimsy as it seems at this time, I believe that humanitarian law must be respected and advocated for. If states are breaking it, it’s right to question why/be horrified/criticise.

The UN are biased in my opinion yes.

By “bias” you mean the organisation that was paramount in setting up the partition plan has repeatedly told Israel it needs to stop over stepping the boundaries that both Israel and the UN agreed to in 1947?

I’m really not dismissing it.

The fact is that, as you say, Gaza is small, and it is densely populated.

Hamas do not identify themselves, they appear as civilians.

They fire weapons from close to or within heavily populated civilian areas and buildings that should be protected (hospitals etc).

They do the same with their military infrastructures.

It’s clearly not easy to fight such a war.

So whilst the legislation around war seeks to minimise harm to civilians, it can’t eradicate it.

I know I link back to this a lot, but telling 2m+ people that the scale of their loss (literally their whole county’s infrastructure, their family members, their homes) is just ‘part of war’ really contributes to the cycle of extremism.

But it is a part of war.

I don’t mean that to sound dismissive, I have never been a victim of war, but all wars end, and the people who have lost everything are left to try and pick up the pieces.

That is true of every single war.

There is no real justice following a war. There never has been.

Oh wait. I dont support what Israel is doing so i must be wrong.

I must have imagined the Jewish settler throwing big rocks at kids last week.

Yes they're happy to kill kids for it.

They're happy to kill adults for it too. Females, males, Muslims, land holders, women, babies, Palestinians, Iranians, Jordanians, Christians and Israelis.

Benjamin Netenyahu doesn't care about Jews or Christians or Muslims or Palestinians or basic humanity.

He is the psychopath.
He is starving the people of Gaza.
He is destroying the reputation of Israel.
He is arming men who committed the 7/10 barbarity.
He continues to arm them.
He is spending Israeli taxes on weakening the state.
He is behind genocide in Gaza and ethnic cleansing in the West Bank.

They did that for financial and demographic concerns rooted in the discrepancy between the Israeli birth rate and the Palestinian birth rate not for 'peace'. They concluded that Israel would be stronger by consolidating control in the West Bank while leaving Gaza. It was never for 'peace'.

Dp

Well it's a bloody awful way of going about it. And they know that. If any reasonable number of Palestinians are left alive and in the region that have guaranteed a generation of bereaved and embittered people sworn to destroy Israel.

I'm Jewish and to me these actions absolutely imperil the future of Israel and the safety of Jews worldwide. People will look at what it's doing and say 'If this is what the Jews do when they get a country and those outside it barely seem to criticise it, they must be pretty shitty people'.

Though that's a side issue because far more important is to stop the deaths and starvation of countless innocent people in Gaza.

Israel cannot 'win' this, I don't think anyone 'wins'.

Members of the Israeli government literally talk about taking the land and forcing the Palestinian to leave. Not random ‘backbencher’ types. Members of the cabinet with real power. Then, you look at the West Bank, the government endorsed settler movement and related violence. You can’t blame people for being a little concerned about Israel’s real aims.

I agree all deaths in war are a tragedy. I think the issue for me is when people dismiss the impact on Gazans as just ‘part of war’. Yes, people inevitably die in war. But war crimes are significant because they attempt to protect civilians in war. They hold governments accountable. The concentration of bombs in a tiny, heavily populated area, the withholding and then limiting of aid, the rhetoric re Gazans. All of that should be on the spotlight. It shouldn’t be dismissed.

I know I link back to this a lot, but telling 2m+ people that the scale of their loss (literally their whole county’s infrastructure, their family members, their homes) is just ‘part of war’ really contributes to the cycle of extremism.

How can I be gaslighting you when we agree it's just different opinions.

Perfectly understandable, lots of people are confused about the meaning of words on this board. Btw what did you mean by palestine? Definitions seem to vary.

Projection much?

Isn’t that what Hamas did on 7/10. Killed kids because from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free.

If Israel wanted the land, they wouldn’t have had the IDF forcibly remove Jewish people from the homes, leaving their entire lives, including thriving businesses, behind. They even dug up their dead.

They did that for peace.

What a joke.

It is my opinion, and increasingly that of everyone else. But you gaslight on…

Israel has trashed its reputation.

Do we though? Or is that just what you "know" or put another way, believe.

Or put yet another way, your opinion.

Excuses excuses. We all know that it’s the land that Israel is after, and they’re happy to kill kids for it.

Apologies, I missed the hospital comment.

And yes, Hamas are also committing war crimes and hurting the Palestinian people.

But I do firmly believe that Isreal is also responsible for limiting civilian casualties and civilian infrastructure and I don’t believe they have.