It's not about genocide but about winning

So we agree the UN are biased due to alliances or historic grievances.

When have the Palestinians ever indicated they would be agreeable to a two state solution?

Starting with the rejection of the partition plan, all the way through Camp David and later the Olmert offer, they have consistently rejected any kind of peace plan that leaves the Jews with even an inch of sovereignty.

This is the majority popular opinion to this day, as is evident by both official polls and unofficial polling eg The Ask Project.

This is what I mean - the general assembly is clearly biased/heavily politicised because it’s just the member states getting together and exposing their allegiances/hatred for certain other countries/inability to take any public stance.

The UNRWA is made up of specialists in humanitarian aid. They are multinational in their make up but they don’t represent or look to appease all the states. They regularly speak out against different states because their focus is on humanitarian law/aid/rights. You can still question their bias based on their experience and background but they are not the same as the general assembly.

When have the Palestinians ever indicated they would be agreeable to a two state solution?

Starting with the rejection of the partition plan, all the way through Camp David and later the Olmert offer, they have consistently rejected any kind of peace plan that leaves the Jews with even an inch of sovereignty.

This is the majority popular opinion to this day, as is evident by both official polls and unofficial polling eg The Ask Project.

I don't speak for Israel nor am I privy to their internal war plans, but the way I see it is thus:

Israel has been implementing ceasefires since its inception, to the detriment of both sides. All ceasefires have ever done is kick the can further along the line, allowing the enemy to regroup and re-arm, which lead to more bloodshed.

For 18 years Israel tried to ignore Gaza and the attacks against civilians coming out from there, rationalising that it would be worse and more costly to deal with it than to mainly ignore. The events of 7 October put paid to that delusion, and now Israel has changed tactic.

It now understands that this is a war which it must win, and crucially Hamas/Gaza must lose. The only way forward ever, with any war, is for one side to be unequivocally defeated, and from there on rebuilding is possible.

As soon as Hamas/Gaza accepts defeat, lays down its weapons and releases the hostages, the acute stage of the war is over. From then, my assumption is that Israel would have some kind of long term plan of (a) deradicalisation, probably by re-education, (b) rebuilding, but with full oversight, making sure there are no tunnels, and (c) handing over the governance to a neutral Arab state.

This broad plan isn't different to how we dealt with Nazi Germany or fascist Japan post war. First there was a clear winner, then rehabilitation of the enemy.

The quicker Gaza/Hamas realises Israel is here to stay, and the most beneficial and prosperous way forward for them is to focus on their own flourishing rather than the destruction of Israel, the fewer lives will be lost.

This is a war that was foisted upon Israel, but now it has a moral duty - to its own citizens, but in the long term, also to the Gazans - to win. Hamas/Gaza can end their misery immediately by surrendering.

Fuck the IDF. Genocidal psychopaths.

The UN voted against condemning Hamas for 7/10. So yeah, they’re pretty anti-Israel.

In recent years, it’s criticised many, many member states for various issues.

UN Condemns Israel 17 Times, Rest of World Combined 6 Times

NEW YORK, Dec. 19, 2024 — The UN General Assembly rebuked Israel today in three separate resolutions, concluding the world body’s 2024 activity with a total of 17 resolutions that single out the Jewish state, compared to a total of 6 on the rest of the world combined.

On Tuesday, the UNGA adopted one resolution each on the regimes of North Korea, Iran, Syria and Myanmar, and one on Russia’s violations in Ukraine. In October, there was also one resolution condemning the U.S. for its embargo of Cuba. (Click here for texts and voting sheets.)

“The UN’s latest assault on Israel with a torrent of one-sided resolutions is surreal,” said Hillel Neuer, Executive Director of UN Watch, an independent non-governmental watchdog organization in Geneva.

“It’s absurd that in the year 2024, out of a total of 23 UN General Assembly resolutions that criticize countries, 17 of them—nearly three quarters—were focused on a single country, Israel. Make no mistake, the purpose of the lopsided condemnations is to delegitimize Israel and to demonize and dehumanize Israelis,” said Neuer.

“This demonization fuels the pro-Hamas agitators in America and around the world who today are targeting Jews with hate and violence on campus, at synagogues and community centers, and at their businesses.”

https://unwatch.org/un-condemns-israel-17-times-6-on-rest-of-world-combined/

From 2015 through 2023, the UN General Assembly has adopted 154 resolutions against Israel and 71 against other countries. For texts and voting sheets, see the UN Watch Database, which will be updated to include the 2024 UNGA resolutions after they are published by the UN in January 2025.

The UN Watch Database also documents that from 2006 through 2024, the UN Human Rights Council has adopted 108 resolutions against Israel, 45 against Syria, 15 against Iran, 10 against Russia, and 4 against Venezuela.

https://unwatch.org/2024-unga-resolutions-on-israel-vs-rest-of-the-world/

For whoever keeps talking about the war leading to more extremism among Palestinians who have lost family due to Israeli bombing, I ask you: how do you think the views of the family and friends of the 1.2k Israelis killed in grotesque circumstances on 7/10 will have changed? And those of the hostages? Children who have been orphaned because Hamas butchered their parents? Will they become more tolerant of Palestinian hate or more embittered? If you’re worried about extremism, among Palestinians and within the Israeli government, this should be a real concern.

I’d also remind you that the irony of 7/10 is that many of those killed were extremely progressive and supported coexistence and Palestinian rights. Many of them campaigned for this. And yet they were tortured and killed in the most horrific way by the barbaric terrorists that run Gaza.

The vote by the member nations of the U.N. is slightly different to the work done by UN humanitarian agencies. They would literally never be able to do/write/criticise anything if they had to placate all the members. In recent years, it’s criticised many, many member states for various issues.

Not at all. The ultimate goal is to be able to live in peace without ongoing threats from the neighbor. As soon as that goal is achieved, which can happen by Gaza being disarmed and neutralized as a threat, not one more Palestinian from Gaza has to die. At least not by Israeli hand, though I can't speak for their safety from Hamas.

The UN voted against condemning Hamas for 7/10. So yeah, they’re pretty anti-Israel.

Hamas has said countless times it wants to eradicate Israel and people chant ‘from the river to the sea’. You don’t seem particularly concerned about Israelis?

Yes some reports will be incorrect or biased but when you look at the entire picture and triangulate across multiple sources to ensure you are not relying on one source alone the evidence is irrefutable.

https://www.bmj.com/content/384/bmj.q203.full
This is a report from the British Medical Journal back in January 2024 highlighting that more medical staff and aid workers had been killed than any over conflict this century.

This isnt how normal war looks.

Here is Retired Major General Charlie Kirk who served in Iraq, Afghanistan and worked in Somalia saying that this is not how normal war is conducted

There's actual footage of Israel bombing the rescue workers in the second strike of the hospital. Sick, sick bastards!

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/footage-shows-second-israeli-strike-hitting-rescue-workers-at-nasser-hospital-after-initial-blast/

There's actual footage of Israel bombing the rescue workers in the second strike of the hospital. Sick, sick bastards!

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/footage-shows-second-israeli-strike-hitting-rescue-workers-at-nasser-hospital-after-initial-blast/

Isrsel just bombed a hospital in Gaza, killing and injuring Palestinians. They then bombed it a second time whilst rescue workers were trying to help the injured, murdering them too.

Respect for your profession.
However, you admit you have not been to Gaza. So any information you are getting is via news reports, social media, organisations on the ground. You must acknowledge that some of this information will be incorrect, and the sources biased? The supposedly un-biased BBC for instance has had to issue multiple corrections for its reporting. See one example here: https://www.politico.eu/article/bbc-says-sorry-to-israel-after-reporting-it-targeted-medical-staff/

I’m obviously not going to respond to every single point in your post, but yes many are incorrect. Your assertion that during no other war have foreign journalists been banned from reporting. This is false. Journalists have been heavily restricted on reporting in Ukraine.

While I agree that Israel should allow international reporters in, can you see why it might not want this when 99% of the coverage is heavily biased? See link above.

Respect for your profession.
However, you admit you have not been to Gaza. So any information you are getting is via news reports, social media, organisations on the ground. You must acknowledge that some of this information will be incorrect, and the sources biased? The supposedly un-biased BBC for instance has had to issue multiple corrections for its reporting. See one example here: https://www.politico.eu/article/bbc-says-sorry-to-israel-after-reporting-it-targeted-medical-staff/

I’m obviously not going to respond to every single point in your post, but yes many are incorrect. Your assertion that during no other war have foreign journalists been banned from reporting. This is false. Journalists have been heavily restricted on reporting in Ukraine.

While I agree that Israel should allow international reporters in, can you see why it might not want this when 99% of the coverage is heavily biased? See link above.