Hamas ‘death culture’ beyond comprehension, says founder’s son

All of this, plus the fact that Israel withdrew from Gaza.
Hamas chos to continue to take the route of terrorism.

Israel left them to it in 2005 removing all settlements and even bodies from cemeteries and look what a shit show hamas made of it.

The horror in gaza is what happens when terrorists run the place.

Hamas are the children of previous illegal occupation, displacement, attack and blockades. Did anyone really expect them to grow up to be reasonable and rational?

Hamas are what happens when a country is allowed to behave the way Isreal does.

Watching any interview with Mosab Yousef is so interesting. He knows it all first hand, I'd love to see him go head to head with fools like Tom Fletcher or Jeremy Bowen and wipe the floor with them.

He knows absolutely what he is talking about and should be given platforms on our biased msm to tell the truth about 'genocide' and UN/ICP declared famine.

I'm interested to hear how more about your belief that Israel created the conditions for terrorism?

Give that the UN attempted to partition the land for Jewish and Arab Palestinians, and the Jewish accepted and became Israel, while the Arab did not accept and instead immediately went about trying to destroy Israel? They weren't agitating for more land, they were attempting to completely remove Jews from the land, entirely. A genocide, or ethnic cleansing- was what was intended.

And this attempted genocide on the brand new Israel was in the immediate shadow of the Holocaust. Holocaust survivors had made a new home there. What would you have had all these these new Israeli people do? Allow another genocide to finally wipe them out? Or defend their new home as decisively as possible?

All the oppression, blockade, wars have followed from that. Terror and killing was the way the Palestinians chose to protest what they saw as their land being partitioned. How else could Israel have responded?

So how does Israel get the blame for creating conditions for terrorism? Was the land a beacon of peace and harmony before Israel was born?

The Jewish people have never engaged in holy war. What on earth are you talking about.

I have zero doubt that Hamas is vicious. What I do very much doubt is that Israel is destroying Gaza and killing, starving and maiming civilians with the sole goal of eradicating Hamas. They clearly have other goals that I do not support, ensuring that Gaza can never function in any form, ensuring a Palestinian state is never a possibility and “cleansing” the land of Palestinians and perhaps even genocide - that’s up to the courts to decide.

Israel has astoundingly good defences. 7/10 happened due to human inattention (or misogyny, depending whose account you prefer). As I said, its current actions cannot reasonably be described as defensive. And it's had more than sufficient payment in blood.

Why would Israel take on all the militant and fundamentalist Muslim authorities across Africa, Arabia, Eurasia and 'the Global South' ?

Are you just pretending not to have read my reply? Israel would have to do that if it were fighting the 'holy war' - which, clearly, it is not doing and couldn't do alone.

With apologies for not engaging with the whole thread - I accept what your quote says: in short, Hamas is an aggressive religious organisation committed to jihad at all costs. It is part of an international network of such organisations, which is powerful and well-funded. These organisations suppress and punish dissenters most viciously: it's pointless to ask why citizens don't oppose them. Have you seen how Iran treats those who defy the smallest government rule?

They will not stop; they can only be held back. If you eliminated one branch, another would replace it. It's a problem.

But this is also why bombing the fuck out of Gaza won't solve the problem. All it can do is eliminate humanity from this coveted strip of land, making it available for resettlement. Since Israel can't, at this point, claim to be acting in self-defence or even revenge, it must either be pursuing the latest phase in a millennia-old 'holy' war or using that as a pretext to take the land.

Israel ain't gonna take on all the militant and fundamentalist Muslim authorities across Africa, Arabia, Eurasia and 'the Global South'. That would call for a worldwide war of ideologies, which isn't an option at this time. So the only rational conclusion is that Israel's killing all the Palestinians because it wants their land.

This does not arouse much sympathy.

Thanks for clarifying, @PaxAeterna! 😊

I'm just a bit twitchy about viewing this messy and brutal Middle Eastern conflict through any kind of Western lens of interpretation, because some of the drivers of it (including Netanyahu, not just Hamas!) are literally beyond our comprehension.

(edited to add: but I'm especially concerned that people underestimate just how vicious Hamas are... I mean, Israel underestimated them too...!)

Israel created the conditions for terrorism and then Netanyahu seemed to sustain Hamas because it meant that a Palestinian state would never come to pass as long as Hamas were in power. This does not excuse what Hamas did and what Hamas did, does not excuse what Israel is doing now.

You are conflating support for the Palestinians with support for terrorism. I do not think that Hamas is a mirror of Irish republicanism. I do not support Hamas and I do not and have never supported modern republican terrorism and neither has a majority of the Irish population. I think the Irish people have empathy with the Palestinian people because of all the reasons that I have mentioned, being colonised, being oppressed, being starved. Settler projects, partition. Also later on being interned without a trial. There are loads of similarities.

Some of these similarities pre date Israel. The Black and Tans (a police force) that terrorised the Irish were then sent to Mandatory Palestine afterwards. Even the Balfour declaration’s aim was described as creating “a little loyal Jewish Ulster in a sea of potentially hostile Arabism.” By a British diplomat.

The situation is not exactly the same of course. But there is no doubt that when the British took over mandatory Palestine they used some of the same methods that they had used in Ireland.

What is sick exactly?

The bit I quoted from you:
So the ongoing conflict and the very creation and sustain in of Hamas is largely put on Israel’s door.
Israel didn't "create" Hamas. It's just one of a many-headed monster (the Muslim Brotherhood) that goes back a long way - active in Gaza since the 1950s, but also influential in Jordan, Syria, Sudan and Tunisia, among others.

By "sustaining" (?) Hamas, maybe you're referring to Netanyahu's efforts to offer them economic incentives in the hope that they would drop their genocidal intentions towards Israel? The fact that this policy backfired spectacularly doesn't point to their existence being Israel's fault. That's a blinkered view and an oversimplification. However much you want to see them that way (and they will do everything in their power to encourage you to do so), Hamas is not simply a mirror of Irish republicanism or anti-colonial resistance - it's much, much darker than that.

Or have I misunderstood you? I've seen such antisemitic views thrown around casually on MN that I might be oversensitive these days!

I lobbed in John Lydon because he sees Hamas for what they really are, much as he did with Jimmy Savile (another perverse entity with great PR).

Of course. But not one that I feel compelled to mention every single time I respond to a point about Israel (like your bewilderment that people blame them for all the dead Palestinian civilians, just because they happened to be the ones that killed them), as if no criticism of Israel can ever be made without "both sidesing" it.

What is sick exactly?

I’m not sure what John Lydon has to do with the price of fish but his views on the Trump Gaza videos do not align with my own to say the least.

@PaxAeterna your username is a bit of a misnomer.

Irish people have had the experience of seeing terrorists become peacemakers once there was an alternative on offer. That’s just our experience. So the ongoing conflict and the very creation and sustain in of Hamas is largely put on Israel’s door.

Really?! that's actually sick.

Got to love John Lydon 💗

https://www.thejc.com/news/former-sex-pistol-john-lydon-defends-israel-and-calls-hamas-just-jew-exterminators-fsjg329g

They seem to have unending supplies of armaments from somewhere. And have diverted aid intended for civilian infrastructure to other uses.

If Hamas has more money than Israel than where are their Naval assets? Where are their fighter jets? Where are their tanks? Where is their nuclear capability? That is a ridiculous comment. Hamas at most has had 50,000 figures and Israel has what 150’000 and many more reserves?

Also the Israeli government is recognised as legitimate by the majority of countries. How many countries formally recognise Hamas as a legitimate government?

I think expecting Israel to be the grown up and respond temperately is to position Hamas as a toddler tantruming. It really isn’t. Expecting Israel to act with restraint when dealing with an organisation who are dedicated to destroying them and have deliberately embedded themselves in a civilian population is unreasonable.

I meant UK.