Gazan GHF workers left to die at hospital where Doctors Without Borders is.

Perhaps the GHF should not say such provocative things then - as suggested by the initial post?

The aid agencies have said that the Israeli vetting procedures are too politicised, which would not surprise me.

Can you name me an aid agency that has not been castigated as antisemitic for raising concerns about what is happening in Gaza and the WB? You’ve caste doubts now about MSF as potentially not being impartial?

It hasn't been proven whether MSF did show impartiality or not.

Or that they didn't have staff in the hospital who could have helped as certain departments were still operating at the time though not the emergency department it appears.

There's a lot of unknowns at the moment.

But the MSF have said that there were not the type of services there able to treat critically ill adults.
They also predicted adults would die due to the targeting of Nasser Hospital.

@CyberStranger MSF were not in the emergency room they were in Paediatric and maternity only.

How many children and pregnant women were left in the courtyard for them to treat?

That's not the whole picture though is it? From the BBC:

Israel denies there are restrictions on aid and says the rules, introduced in March, ensure that aid "reaches the population directly and not Hamas".

Israel said that any delays in delivering aid occur "only when organisations choose not to meet the basic security requirements intended to prevent Hamas's involvement".

Cogat, the Israeli military body in charge of aid, said nearly 20 organisations that completed the registration process are bringing aid into Gaza, with roughly 300 trucks entering daily.

The UN says 600 trucks of supplies a day are needed in Gaza.

The new guidelines introduced in March update the framework for how aid groups must register to maintain their status within Israel, along with provisions that outline how their applications can be denied or registration revoked.

Registration can be rejected if Israeli authorities deem that a group denies the democratic character of Israel or "promotes delegitimisation campaigns" against the country.

"Unfortunately, many aid organisations serve as a cover for hostile and sometimes violent activity," Israel's Diaspora Minister Amichai Chikli told the Agence France-Presse news agency.

"Organisations that have no connection to hostile or violent activity and no ties to the boycott movement will be granted permission to operate," added Chikli.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj6ynz22871o

However, we have Palestinians that have been killed due to a set up that is trying to circumvent Israel refusing to allow aid agencies to work as they see fit.

On Thursday, dozens of aid groups signed a statement alleging that Israel was refusing to let a number of international NGOs distribute aid in Gaza, leaving millions of dollars’ worth of food and other assistance sitting in warehouses and putting future aid operations at risk.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/un-says-13000-children-treated-for-malnutrition-in-gaza-in-july-as-aid-trickles-in/amp/

you are right - let me be more specific- the doctors able to treat critically ill adults were not there according to their statement and corroborated by your links.

@CyberStranger
I hope we can all now use Al Jazeera as a source of information? It’s dreadful seeing the footage you linked of the chaos and destruction present around the hospital. Can you imagine if this was being shown on the BBC/ CNN
we really need western journalists in there

It sounds like the type of situation that would lead to many poor people being ‘left’ to die in corridors or courtyards.

Well it shows MSF were absolutely right. Not only does this link show that the services were reduced to paediatric and maternity but it also forewarns about the risks of IDF targeting this hospital:

“Putting Nasser Hospital out of service would equate to a death sentence for the most severely wounded and critically ill patients—adults and children—and women in need of emergency obstetric care.”

MSF did no deny this - there statement said:

“On 10 June, after weeks of intense Israeli bombardment, including two direct attacks targeting Nasser hospital, and movement restrictions and displacement orders in the vicinity of the facility in Khan Younis, southern Gaza, MSF announced the relocation of some of our activities to our field hospital in Deir Al-Balah to protect patients and staff. At that moment, our work at Nasser hospital was intermittent due to insecurity and movement restrictions, and our activities were limited to the maternity and paediatric wards.”

The MSF interviewee Claire also stated its paediatric services that are present in Nasser hospital- she also spoke about lack of pain relief for burnt children and treating children with malnutrition. Presumably all compounded by the prior blockade of aid by Israel due to Hamas.

It is good to see MSF show impartiality- as aid agencies have been criticised for being otherwise in the region.

One part or the GHF claim has already been debunked- Doctors Without Borders were not there.

Agree that we can’t trust Hamas, nor does it seem GHF knows what happened. GHF spokesman needs to be clear on evidence when making such claims as otherwise risks undermining their independence and credibility. Perhaps they will provide more details.

Thanks for digging a little deeper - I must admit I’m relieved it is a relatively small sample.

No system is perfect and like Israel we have had lots of coalitions and independents/small parties propping up governments. It does mean there are a lot of checks and balances on more controversial decisions (independent tend be more on the ground with voters than the big parties so they are more susceptibility to it )but the usual victims to the wrong policies in the next round of elections are the small parties .

Anyway sorry for the derailment. I find it very interesting especially compared to the UK system

I take your point.

I used to be all in favour of the PR system and have for years wanted the UK to adopt it. This situation with the Israel elections does show one of the potential problems. Though it's encouraging what you say about Ireland.

We all know the conflict between the Israel government and Hamas started well before 7/10.

Still, what we are discussing is this current war and we go down a rabbit hole if we start discussing historical injustices that happened (on both sides) before then.

With respect, I think you should start a separate thread if you want to highlight individual testimonies etc because that is very much not what we are discussing on this thread.

Posts don't get deleted for mentioning Genocide btw. That is a matter of opinion that people are free to discuss. But please don't hijack a thread to shoehorn your views about it into any discussion at all.

I've found that poll you mention @PinkBobby and it is quite a small sample carried out in just one week of 601 Jewish interviewees and 152 Arab interviewees.

Some of the responses are very disturbing and what comes out clearly is a big lack of trust on any information presented by "the other side" (we see this on MN too!)

My post may get deleted.

All I can say is, if you don't trust the reporting coming from inside the occupied territory, listen to the testimony of foreign medics. The Paediatrician, the plastic surgeon, the nurse. The types of casualties and conditions they are witness to, not just in this conflict, but the many times they have gone to the aid of these people.

Watch the testimonies of former aligned I-s-r**lis, both uniformed and civilian. Watch the testimonies from family who now live abroad.

Read up the G*noide convention. Think.

Watch the thousands of videos the bombing, aid blocking, scrambling, the videos showing resilience and also complete despair, those with unwavering determination to seek food for their families, the videos of weeping of bereaved children and spouses. The children dismembered, malnourished and starved, the boy with Down's Syndrome hyperventilating at the sound of bombing and gunfire being soothed by his mother and father and relatives. The 80 year old man at the frontline for food aid passing out. The pattern oof barbaric, targetted injuries to those seeking food.

Listen to the testimonies of children, spouses, parents, grandparents and other relatives who have had their family members murdered in the thousands.

This all started way, way before October 23.

Yes a lot of the world moving further right.

Ironically it seems to be due to fear of extremism. Or is that logical? I don't know any more.

Well this is another problem, isn’t it. If they have wiped out Hamas by then, they could get reelected on that platform and then have a huge mandate for acting in a similar fashion in the WB.

@Twiglets1 that’s interesting info, thanks for looking and sharing. It’s hard to gauge how the Israeli people would vote - you read that info and think they’re ready for change and then there’s info like this:

“78% of Jewish Israelis, who make up four-fifths of the population, believe that given the restrictions of the fighting, Israel "is making substantial efforts to avoid causing unnecessary suffering to Palestinians in Gaza".
The pollsters also chose a more personal question, asking whether individuals were "troubled or not troubled by the reports of famine and suffering among the Palestinian population in Gaza?"
Some 79% of Jewish Israelis surveyed said they were not troubled”. (Israeli Democracy Institute poll in a BBC article).

Maybe I’m naive and or too cynical of the IDI’s reliability but I can’t believe this is a genuine reflection of how Israelis feel about the situation, especially when you look at the info @Twiglets1 shared. If it is, then it seems likely that elections would not be the beginning of more moderate days.