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Conflict in the Middle East
Original poster

UEFA have finally taken a stand

612 replies

LifeOfAShowGirl · 13/08/2025 20:15

https://x.com/uefa/status/1955706670824235327?s=46

A mild, late, spineless stand. But a stand. It makes me wonder how much longer this can go on before governments realise people are fed up of this.

OP posts:
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13
Gloriia · 18/08/2025 20:11

GladioliGreen · 18/08/2025 19:38

Aren't prisoners usually charged with a crime?

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You want to hear how Saudi does law.

Granted, they aren't Israelis so the outrage won't be there. Middle Eastern countries a law unto themselves justice wise but I think we can all agree that actually abducting innocent people and keeping them starved in tunnels as hamas do is a step too far to say the least.

CrimsonGlaze · 18/08/2025 20:09

mids2019 · 14/08/2025 07:00

I suppose that message stands about October 7th and the rockets Hamas fire towards Israel. As long as it's a message aimed at both warring parties it stands.

This started way before October 7.

Original poster
LifeOfAShowGirl · 18/08/2025 20:07

Dangermoo · 18/08/2025 20:00

Depends on the respective law. If they pose a threat, detaining them might be the only option.

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While this is legal under Israeli law (funnily enough it’s a military power, commonly used against West Bank citizens and their detention is reviewed in secret), under article 9 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (to which Israel is a signatory):

Article 9(1) states: “Everyone has the right to liberty and security of person. No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest or detention.”
Article 9(2) guarantees that anyone arrested must be informed promptly of the reasons and be brought before a judge.

OP posts:
Dangermoo · 18/08/2025 20:00

GladioliGreen · 18/08/2025 19:38

Aren't prisoners usually charged with a crime?

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Depends on the respective law. If they pose a threat, detaining them might be the only option.

GladioliGreen · 18/08/2025 19:38

Gloriia · 18/08/2025 18:59

Prisoners. Palestinian prisoners.

So you are backtracking and saying hostages are relevant. Well done.

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Aren't prisoners usually charged with a crime?

Gloriia · 18/08/2025 18:59

LifeOfAShowGirl · 18/08/2025 18:16

If you think the Israeli hostages are key to the deal, so are the Palestinian hostages

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Prisoners. Palestinian prisoners.

So you are backtracking and saying hostages are relevant. Well done.

Original poster
LifeOfAShowGirl · 18/08/2025 18:16

Gloriia · 18/08/2025 18:10

He doesn't have hostages, he has prisoners as you well know. Whatever though, hostages are irrelevant you announced earlier.

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If you think the Israeli hostages are key to the deal, so are the Palestinian hostages

OP posts:
Gloriia · 18/08/2025 18:10

LifeOfAShowGirl · 18/08/2025 17:50

Will he release his hostages as part of the deal?

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He doesn't have hostages, he has prisoners as you well know. Whatever though, hostages are irrelevant you announced earlier.

Original poster
LifeOfAShowGirl · 18/08/2025 17:50

Twiglets1 · 18/08/2025 17:48

Whether the demands are reasonable or not though is a different question than whether you trust Netanyahu or not. You might answer:

Are the demands reasonable - Yes
Do I trust Netanyahu - No.

Edited
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Will he release his hostages as part of the deal?

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Twiglets1 · 18/08/2025 17:48

LifeOfAShowGirl · 18/08/2025 17:41

Personally I don’t see his demands as reasonable because he’s broken the last two ceasefires. He shouldn’t get the upper hand at the negotiating table of “do what I say or I’ll kill the population of Gaza”, he should be negotiating. I do agree that Hamas needs to leave, but whatever would come in its place will also be a disaster, because he’s just going to continue isn’t he?

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Whether the demands are reasonable or not though is a different question than whether you trust Netanyahu or not. You might answer:

Are the demands reasonable - Yes
Do I trust Netanyahu - No.

Original poster
LifeOfAShowGirl · 18/08/2025 17:41

Twiglets1 · 18/08/2025 17:39

Protestors don't need to see things through Hamas eyes (or anyone) they should be protesting for what they believe is right.

To anyone who doesn't see things through the eyes of Hamas the demands can only be reasonable.

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Personally I don’t see his demands as reasonable because he’s broken the last two ceasefires. He shouldn’t get the upper hand at the negotiating table of “do what I say or I’ll kill the population of Gaza”, he should be negotiating. I do agree that Hamas needs to leave, but whatever would come in its place will also be a disaster, because he’s just going to continue isn’t he?

OP posts:
Twiglets1 · 18/08/2025 17:39

LifeOfAShowGirl · 18/08/2025 17:24

The demands would be reasonable if he had respected the two previous ceasefires. He hasn’t, so why would Hamas do that? In their eyes (and I am not saying I believe this), they’d be ceding power for Netanyahu to go in and bulldoze Gaza.

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Protestors don't need to see things through Hamas eyes (or anyone) they should be protesting for what they believe is right.

To anyone who doesn't see things through the eyes of Hamas the demands can only be reasonable.

Original poster
LifeOfAShowGirl · 18/08/2025 17:24

Gloriia · 18/08/2025 16:51

'His ceasefire demands were already in place:'
Release the hostages
Hamas disarm
Hamas leave Gaza

Why don't the keffiyeh wearers have this on their placards for their flasks and sarnies sit ins? I don't get it.

The demands would be reasonable if he had respected the two previous ceasefires. He hasn’t, so why would Hamas do that? In their eyes (and I am not saying I believe this), they’d be ceding power for Netanyahu to go in and bulldoze Gaza.

OP posts:
Twiglets1 · 18/08/2025 17:23

Gloriia · 18/08/2025 16:51

'His ceasefire demands were already in place:'
Release the hostages
Hamas disarm
Hamas leave Gaza

Why don't the keffiyeh wearers have this on their placards for their flasks and sarnies sit ins? I don't get it.

I know - that is something we could all get behind!
(maybe ... no one else has actually commented on the demands being reasonable or not)

Gloriia · 18/08/2025 16:51

'His ceasefire demands were already in place:'
Release the hostages
Hamas disarm
Hamas leave Gaza

Why don't the keffiyeh wearers have this on their placards for their flasks and sarnies sit ins? I don't get it.

Martymcfly24 · 18/08/2025 16:47

LifeOfAShowGirl · 18/08/2025 15:31

We have seen this before with the demands to evacuate. People fled to Rafah, only to be bombed there.

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Saves on ammunition when they are all grouped together. You get more value per bomb.Same with tents.

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 18/08/2025 16:28

MyNameIsX · 18/08/2025 16:08

Genuine surprise, that’s all.

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Understandable- it’s not always visible. I’d be doing exactly the same if this were happening in Israel.

MyNameIsX · 18/08/2025 16:08

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 18/08/2025 15:32

I’m not really sure what you mean given I’ve only dipped in and out the last week. I’m guessing that’s meant to be a dig of some sort.

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Genuine surprise, that’s all.

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 18/08/2025 15:48

Twiglets1 · 18/08/2025 15:40

No, they are 2 completely separate things. I only mentioned the deadline of 7/10 as evidence for my argument that Netanyahu doesn't want the war to drag on indefinitely, that's Hamas.

At the time Netanyahu made his statement about Gaza city, he wanted to force Hamas back to the negotiating table.

His ceasefire demands were already in place:
Release the hostages
Hamas disarm
Hamas leave Gaza

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Even if Netanyahu framed the Gaza City deadline as a way to pressure Hamas to negotiate, his repeated actions: breaking ceasefires, stalling truces, and enforcing blockades- show that in practice he’s content to let the war continue. The so-called ceasefire demands (‘release hostages, Hamas disarm, Hamas leave Gaza’) don’t change the fact that civilians keep dying and the conflict drags on, undermining the idea that he truly wants a swift resolution.

Twiglets1 · 18/08/2025 15:40

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 18/08/2025 15:31

Right, I understand you’re framing the deadline as part of his ‘ceasefire demands,’ but the reality is that hundreds of thousands of civilians would be displaced either way. The way it’s being described makes it sound like a reasonable measure, when in practice it’s catastrophic for the people on the ground.

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No, they are 2 completely separate things. I only mentioned the deadline of 7/10 as evidence for my argument that Netanyahu doesn't want the war to drag on indefinitely, that's Hamas.

At the time Netanyahu made his statement about Gaza city, he wanted to force Hamas back to the negotiating table.

His ceasefire demands were already in place:
Release the hostages
Hamas disarm
Hamas leave Gaza

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 18/08/2025 15:32

MyNameIsX · 18/08/2025 15:30

Wow.

Amazed you have the capacity, given the amount of time you evidently devote to MN.

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I’m not really sure what you mean given I’ve only dipped in and out the last week. I’m guessing that’s meant to be a dig of some sort.

Original poster
LifeOfAShowGirl · 18/08/2025 15:31

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 18/08/2025 15:31

Right, I understand you’re framing the deadline as part of his ‘ceasefire demands,’ but the reality is that hundreds of thousands of civilians would be displaced either way. The way it’s being described makes it sound like a reasonable measure, when in practice it’s catastrophic for the people on the ground.

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We have seen this before with the demands to evacuate. People fled to Rafah, only to be bombed there.

OP posts:
Wedonttalkaboutboris · 18/08/2025 15:31

Twiglets1 · 18/08/2025 15:19

You are deliberately misrepresenting what I said.

I did not say it was "reasonable" for Netanyahu to give 1M people a deadline of 7/10/25 to evacuate Gaza city. I did not imply it was any kind of solution.

What I said was reasonable (in my opinion) was Netanyahu's ceasefire demands.

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Right, I understand you’re framing the deadline as part of his ‘ceasefire demands,’ but the reality is that hundreds of thousands of civilians would be displaced either way. The way it’s being described makes it sound like a reasonable measure, when in practice it’s catastrophic for the people on the ground.

MyNameIsX · 18/08/2025 15:30

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 18/08/2025 15:29

Gladly doing more than posting here- helping to raise and donate thousands, supporting verified grassroots charities, helping families on the ground and trying to raise awareness responsibly. Talking about it isn’t a substitute, it’s part of the advocacy.

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Wow.

Amazed you have the capacity, given the amount of time you evidently devote to MN.

Wedonttalkaboutboris · 18/08/2025 15:29

MyNameIsX · 18/08/2025 15:21

Are you doing anything other than salving your conscience on MN?

Are you donating? Demonstrating? Are you an activist?

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Gladly doing more than posting here- helping to raise and donate thousands, supporting verified grassroots charities, helping families on the ground and trying to raise awareness responsibly. Talking about it isn’t a substitute, it’s part of the advocacy.