UEFA have finally taken a stand

But these people haven't even been charged with anything so as far as the law is concerned they are innocent? They have just been rounded up off the street, taken away, held without their consent, tortured, abused, starved and in some cases they are killed.

We've all seen the videos of what happens in the West Bank for instance, we've seen the situations where violent Israelis attack Palestinian homes and farms, where in some cases they shoot and even kill Palestinians and it's the Palestinians dragged away. The idea that all of these Palestinians are guilty is farcical.

Ah yes balance and examples of similar issues are irrelevant. Of course. Maybe it's time for a funny gif.

Well I could say the same about you. How on earth can you argue that a country detaining anyone without charge is in way shape or form comparable to terrorists committing atrocities and abducting hundreds of innocent people. The argument is grasping at straws.

I don't have a cause. I'm on mn, I'm not out with my placard and flask.

As I've said what 5 times now? The judiciary in the Middle East is a million miles away from our western systems

They cut hands off thieves in Saudi you know. I don't think Israel do that but I bet the BBC and Amnesty international would be delighted if they did.

I tell you what though, I bet any 'judiciary system' in gaza is a million times worse than detaining someone without charge. Sharia law, not for the western fainthearted keffiyeh wearers.

'Hamas was wrong to take the hostages'

Yes, they were 'wrong' to take hostages. I suppose you got there in the end.

Well you could debate other countries judiciary systems if you like, perhaps start another thread? For example i dont think capital punishment is 'ok' but many countries do this, however I certainly wouldn't liken capital punishment to rounding innocents up and murdering them in cold blood, would you?!

The point is many other countries do detain prisoners without charge and I've helpfully given an example.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record but as a pp seems not to have grasped this <and has posted a funny tumble weed gif > different judiciary systems is a world away from terrorists committing mass atrocities, abducting hundreds of innocent men, women and children from their homes torturing them and keeping them hostage in appalling conditions.

We all know that even the poster with the very hilarious gif.

Not holding my breath.

Is it okay though? To keep people without charge, sexually assault them, starve them, torture them? If you were taken off the street, held without charge, starved, tortured and sexually assaulted in a prison with no idea when or if you would get out would you think oh well this is nothing in comparison to the same being done in a tunnel?

You are allowed to criticise some things that the Israeli government and IDF do you know. It doesn't suddenly make you a terrorist supporter or even a supporter of Palestinians.

No. As I've already explained a pp said is it ok to keep prisoners without charge. I pointed out that many places do.

That is not comparable to committing atrocities, abducting hundreds and keeping them as hostages starved in tunnels.

So you admit Israel’s human rights are as bad as Saudis? As no one here is defending Saudi.

Only one of those countries is the ‘only democracy in the Middle East’.

You said 'aren't prisoners usually charged with a crime' I said different countries do things differently and gave Saudi as an example, a country that does far worse yet isn't Israel so none of the keffiyeh wearers care.

Abducting innocent people from their homes and torturing them for 2yrs after carrying out multiple atrocities is not the same by a long shot.

Is keeping people including children in prison without charge, sexually assaulting them, torturing them and starving them generally not frowned upon where you are from then or what point are you trying to make?

Others do it too isn't really considered a great defence.

You keep saying you won't engage yet quote me. Why? Just don't engage with me if you’re struggling.

It is context that justice in Middle Eastern countries is very different to our country as a pp had said 'Aren't prisoners usually charged with a crime?'

However abducting hundreds of innocent people and keeping them starved in tunnels thankfully is frowned upon.

You aren't there, to see the full picture, are you?

Yes abducting people, torturing and starving them in overcrowded scabies infested prison cells is far more civilised.

Yeh small children throwing stones in a real threat against soldiers with guns.