Israel murders another 15 people queieng for food

It is interesting to see that the defence of genocide is based of statements that go back 1000 years or more. It is also important not to conflate religion and state, Many religions exits across borders, in fact, most do. To declare that Jewish people lived here in the past and present and therefore the land is Israeli is to show the fallacy in the narrative from Israel. State and religion should never be linked, those who do, do so for personal gain, The fact that the defence of genocide is reliant on blurring the lines on state and religion is to show the error in the logic.

Please point out these quasi religious tropes you speak of and we can discuss them?

Jews have lived in the portion of land we now call Israel for 1000's of years. They haven't always been sovereign, and they haven't always been a majority, and they've frequently been oppressed, but they've always been there.

You can easily look this up yourself.

Who had sovereignty over the land in 1918?

Who had sovereignty over the land from
1919?

Who was given the majority of the land in 1921?

What was the Balfour declaration?

Why didn’t the Arabs, who already had 73% of the land for their own State, want to split the remaining 27% with the Jews?

The region of Palestine had no Jewish population before 1948?

Did the term Palestinians refer to both Jews and Arabs in the region before 1948?

If you can answer all those questions truthfully (google will help), you’ll see how misinformed and ignorant your post was.

The biggest irony in your post is that the Hamas and many Palestinians believe that ALL the land is Muslim land.

It is telling and sad to see the pro-Israeli group on here ultimately resort to quasi religious tropes linked to a right to live in a parcel of land not occupied by them for over 1000 years. This is the heart of the Israeli narrative, this land was our, this land is ours and we will take it. The irony in this is what empowers Israel is America, a nation occupying the historic lands of the native Americans and encouraging the Israeli government to invade its neighbours.

The world needs to recognise the misinformation from these people for what it is - through ignorance or prejudice they are supporting genocide.

Former top Biden administration officials Jack Lew and David Satterfield reveal that “neither the IDF nor the UN ever shared evidence with us — or asserted to us privately — that Hamas was physically diverting US-funded goods provided by the World Food Programme or international nongovernmental organizations.”
“Furthermore, there was no evidence of substantial Hamas diversion of any major assistance funded by the UN or nongovernmental organizations (NGOs),” write Lew, who served as US ambassador to Israel, and Satterfield, who served as US envoy for Mideast humanitarian issues, in a joint op-ed in Foreign Affairs.
Israel has insisted on the contrary and used the assertion of widespread, systemic Hamas theft of aid to justify the creation of the controversial Gaza Humanitarian Foundation in May.

@CyberStranger

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/01/01/middleeast/israel-population-migration-war-intl

It's just that the population dropped in 2024 so I was wondering why you said there was "more Palestinians in Gaza now than before October 7th" .
A 6% drop that is expected to rise those year

That's why I asked . In case you had different statistics.

Have a read

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/biden-officials-say-idf-never-privately-asserted-that-hamas-was-physically-diverting-aid/

What part of that are you questioning? Stats are easily googleable.

The population number or the demographic of adults and children?

Isn’t it said on here that half the population are children.

Can I ask where you got the statistics on population in Gaza from?

Because they have to pretend to be at least trying to help. They need allies.

Why don't you point out some examples of this ignorance then? Enlighten us.

So much ignorance on this thread.

I can accept its significance to Islam. Although the 'Night Journey' always seemed a bit convenient to me. But religion is going to religion I guess.

What I cant accept is people not accepting the significance of the Jewish remains being underneath ( ie much older ) than the Islamic ones.

I wanted to say that earlier. How can it have significance to Islam when it was created before Islam existed!

Why bother though, huh.

I see you managed to Google it. If you'd have read a few lines further down then you'd have seen that the Dome of the Rock and Al Aqsa mosque are built on the ruins of the second Jewish temple. The Roman's destroyed that temple before Mohammed was born. The Western Wall is part of King Herods structure.

Do you understand the significance of that?

I've never had an answer to that question either and I have also asked it.

Not a serious answer anyway. Just things along the line of the IDF being genocidal maniacs. No attempt to answer why they would logically want to do it as in - what would they gain from making the new aid distribution centres fail?

Hamas on the other hand, they have a lot to gain in terms of reputational damage to the GHF and IDF.

I don’t believe Israel deliberately targeted civilians queuing for food, in answer to your question.

Why would they logically?

Why do you believe Hamas?

Thats a genuine question and I’d really appreciate any answers to that actually.

Has anyone ever answered that question on the thousands of threads on this board which mainly consist of decrying Israel and the IDF as being liars and genocidal maniacs.

If you characterise a perfectly reasonable question as “an anti-Israel conniption” then, honestly, it probably isn’t the board for you.

I expect the Roman's did indeed want Rome back from the Visigoths after they sacked it, yes.

It was a question that required a yes or no answer.
It was not a demand for an anti Israel conniption.

Should we be giving our Roman cities back to Rome?

And this

• Well of Souls:
• Located beneath the Foundation Stone, this cave is partly natural and partly man-made. In Islamic tradition, it's believed to be a place where the spirits of the dead await Judgment Day, although this is not a mainstream Islamic belief.

Why dont you tell us what's underneath the Dome of the Rock?

Under the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem lies the Foundation Stone, also known as the Noble Rock. This large rock is the focal point of the shrine and is considered a sacred site in Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Beneath the Foundation Stone is a small cave called the Well of Souls.

According to Google it is the foundation stone which holds significance in all three Abrahamic religions.

Who were the original inhabitants?
Who founded Jerusalem?
Whats underneath the Dome of the Rock?

I am glad that you bring up history, it is important here. The land now called Israel has been fought over and occupied by different people over millennia. After the second world war Palestine which was ruled by the Ottomans for most of the prior 500 years, but recently ruled by the British post WW1, was partitioned into a Jewish and Arab sections by the British. The Jewish section became the state of Israel and a home and sanctuary for the persecuted from WW2. Several wars later the Israeli nation has waged war and taken more land from its neighbours and specifically the Arab section of Palestine, more or less doubling the size of the country created. Israel was funded and armed by western nations, most notably America for the reasons that several on here have cited - religion. The occupation of Palestine by Israel created first the Palestine Liberation Organisation and later Hamas.

I assume that you have never been to Israel let alone Palestine, if you had I am sure that you would have a different view. Israel is a wealthy nation where Palestinians are 'allowed' to work but in an environment reminiscent of WW2 Germany (ironically) they need proper papers, are forced to line up each day with no guarantee of work and treated like enslaved labour. In the West Bank the Israeli 'settlers' steal more land from Palestinian farmers with aggressive armed tactics, supported by their government. In the Gaza strip, the border entries are controlled by Israel, other than those with Egypt. Israeli gun ships patrol the seas off the coast of Palestine, shooting at the fishermen if they come more than a mile off their coast - which is technically in the Palestinian territory, well before international waters start. Many vessels are sunk and fishermen killed. The daily life in 'peace' time is one of oppression, subjugation and control.

Israel has been waging an overt and covert war on the Palestinians for decades, persecuting them, controlling them and killing them, all in the name of self defence. It is true that Hamas are linked to and supported by Tehran, is this no surprise that a nation looks to help the Palestinians resist. This is no different to the Americans funding the IRA through Norad in the 1970s or its support for multiple 'rebels' in central and south America who are striving themselves for regime change.

The fact is that the arbitrary partition of Palestine post WW2 to create Israel was bad enough, the American funded expansion and aggression since then has lead to resistance and Hamas. It is Israel and the Americans that created Hamas and in a different world, America would also be funding Hamas to resist the imperialist expansion of an aggressive neighbour and calling Hamas freedom fighters not terrorists.

What happened 2 years ago was awful, but hardly a surprise and hardly proportionate to the decades of theft, killing and aggression that proceeded it. Being aware of the history in this awful situation is important.

What I have shared is fact, not conspiracy, the conspiracy theorists will tell you that Israel knew the attack was coming (perhaps not the level of killing) and allowed it to happen so that they can reference it in an all out assault on Palestine.