So are MSF wrong about Gaza too?

Liberating all of the former British Mandate for Palestine of Jews entirely. And by violent means.

They won a small majority (and didn’t win a majority in any district) and were meant to lead with the more moderate Fatah party but, being terrorists, they killed members and drove the rest out. They seized control and haven’t held elections since.

Liberating Palestine by violent means.

Please don't try to defend Hamas.

Obviously the situations are very different - it wasn’t an actual comparison - but it’s important to stop blurring the lines between Hamas and innocent people. Hamas’s existence doesn’t mean Israel can get away with doing what ever they want in Gaza.

And liberating Palestine from Israel Occupation.

They didn't seize power. They were voted in on a policy of antisemitism, extremely conservative Islam, and violence against Israel. They were very clear about what they stood for.

This is such a bad analogy I’m actually speechless.

Hamas attacked Israel because they are terrorists. Sadly they are also the government in Gaza after seizing power in ‘07.

There are terrorists in the UK too. When the bombings happened in London in 05, we didn’t flatten Leeds (where the attackers were from) in case everyone was a terrorist there.

It's Israel that is guarding the borders and the Israeli Government that is refusing access to international journalists, not Hamas. Your response to every question about Israel's conduct is 'but Hamas ...' but this doesn't wash any more.

So why did Palestine Hamas attack Israel?

(Fixed that for you)

So why did Palestine attack Israel?

Israel has the means to completely destroy Palestine and kill everyone there. Hamas has the means to commit horrific terrorist acts but does not have the means to completely destroy Israel. It's an uneven contest.

Must have been hiding in all of these ones.

You think unbiased journalists would be allowed to wander about without Hamas! I can just see now the vile uniforms coming off and om pops the cilivan clothing.

What buildings ARE Hamas hiding in?

Is Israel destroyed? No. If Israel were completely destroyed by Hamas, how would you feel if i said 'well did Israel want Gaza to remain intact?'

If anyone is ‘interested’ in this type of stuff more broadly, you should read The Shock Doctrine by Naomi Klien. It talks about how capitalism thrives after tragedies and how there are people who will make a lot of money in the aftermath of this war. Spoiler alert, it won’t be Palestinians.

She also wrote this interesting article. Sorry @Dangermoo it’s also from the Guardian. I must admit, I read it because it’s by her not because it’s my paper of choice. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2024/oct/05/israel-gaza-october-7-memorials

If the self-proclaimed 'most moral army in the world' has nothing to hide, why don't they let international journalists into Gaza?

Hamas doesn't come out smelling of roses. It is an anti-semitic terrorist organisation and is guilty of the most disgusting and barbaric acts. But I expect the army of a first world country that we sell arms to, to be held to higher standards.

No, but evidence suggests that the majority of Israeli and Palestinian citizens wanted a two state solution not that long ago. The figures on each side match pretty well throughout the years, sadly declining over time. In both societies, there are plenty of people who want peace and to just get on with their lives and then there are people who want hatred to win. And this is true in most places - extremism is an issue in the UK too. Thankfully, not in our government. Which is, I believe, a big factor in the conflict. Obviously, Hamas are extremists and have always led with terror (and their views shouldn’t be confused for the general consensus in Gaza). Meanwhile, there is a powerful and extremist group within the Israeli government that appears keen to destroy Gaza no matter what the consequences are.

I think it is also important to note that at this point especially there is such an imbalance of power between Israel’s govt. / army and their broader tech capabilities and Hamas - a terrorist group. Hamas can do horrendous acts like 7/10 but they can’t invade and flatten Israel with aerial strikes. So, at this point in time, Hamas’s aims are terrible but are less of a reality than the plans Netenyahu seems to be rolling out. Hamas can’t destroy Israel but Israel can destroy Gaza in its attempts to destroy Hamas.

I'm saying that nobody should make excuses for the purposeful destruction of the Gaza strip by pretending Hamas are hiding in every building. The goal was clear from the very beginning of this conflict. Make Gaza uninhabitable, eliminate everything.

Stop. I did not know that.

Talk about laughing in people's faces.

I agree, as I saw on the Palestine Action Group thread.

Yinon Levy the extremist settler who murdered Umm al Kheir a few weeks ago and who is sanctioned by the UK, Canada and the EU owns a 'construction' company who are subcintracted by the Israeli government to demolish Gaza. Apparently he is working everyday in Gaza demolishing buildings, his lawyer used it as a reason why he shouldn't be under house arrest for his crime.

Course you don't.

"There is none so blind as those who will not see"