Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Conflict in the Middle East

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

So are MSF wrong about Gaza too?

343 replies

OneKookyShark · 07/08/2025 13:48

I have read multiple posts both on here and on the CITME forum- and I am aware how toxic the debate is.

But surely when Legitimate and highly respected international NGO talks of ‘orchestrated killing and dehuminisation”, then it starts to become utterly undeniable?

I am sure someone will be along to tell me otherwise. I also note that Netenyahu has ordered a full occupation of Gaza city today.

“Médecins Sans Frontières calls for immediate closure of Gaza Humanitarian Foundation
The medical NGO Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF) has called for the immediate closure of Gaza Humanitarian Foundation (GHF), the US- and Israeli-backed aid organisation operating in Gaza, describing GHF-run food distribution sites in Gaza as having become sites of “orchestrated killing and dehumanisation”.
In a social media post on Thursday, MSF wrote:
“In MSF’s nearly 54 years of operations, rarely have we seen such levels of systematic violence against unarmed civilians.”
The GHF-run food distributions in Gaza, Palestine, have become sites of “orchestrated killing and dehumanisation”, not humanitarian aid.
In a new report, MSF analysed medical data, patients’ testimonies and first-hand medical witnesses at two MSF clinics in Gaza and found that it “point[ed] to both targeted and indiscriminate violence by Israeli forces and private American contractors against starved Palestinians” at food distribution sites run by the GHF”

OP posts:
Thread gallery
16
Dangermoo · 09/08/2025 10:57

GladioliGreen · 09/08/2025 10:48

We have heard this kind of rhetoric from Israeli politicians too in an attempt to justify the destruction that would take place. These excuses were in play as far back as Oct 2023, the idea that Palestinians are the ones responsible for their own destruction, even the children, not the people dropping the 2000lb bombs in order to, in their own words, 'eliminate everything'.

"It’s an entire nation out there that is responsible. it’s not true this rhetoric about civilians not aware not involved, it’s absolutely not true …” Isaac Herzog, Israel’s president, said at a press conference on 13 October.

“The children in Gaza have brought this upon themselves,” said Meirav Ben-Ari in the Knesset on 16 of October 2023.

Show quote history

So you're saying Israel isn't in danger from Islamic extremists - or are you saying, videoing slaughtering Israel's people, was a one off? The Gszan population aren't all civilians and I'm not just talking about Hamas.

Dangermoo · 09/08/2025 10:54

Martymcfly24 · 09/08/2025 10:49

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/jul/09/bulldzoer-gaza-genocide-idf-meta

Show quote history

The Guardian - wouldn't expect any less.

Martymcfly24 · 09/08/2025 10:51

GladioliGreen · 09/08/2025 10:48

We have heard this kind of rhetoric from Israeli politicians too in an attempt to justify the destruction that would take place. These excuses were in play as far back as Oct 2023, the idea that Palestinians are the ones responsible for their own destruction, even the children, not the people dropping the 2000lb bombs in order to, in their own words, 'eliminate everything'.

"It’s an entire nation out there that is responsible. it’s not true this rhetoric about civilians not aware not involved, it’s absolutely not true …” Isaac Herzog, Israel’s president, said at a press conference on 13 October.

“The children in Gaza have brought this upon themselves,” said Meirav Ben-Ari in the Knesset on 16 of October 2023.

Show quote history

Israeli politician Moshe Feiglin:

“Just as Hitler vowed to eliminate every Jew and said he couldn’t live as long as one Jew remained, I say: we cannot live in this land as long as one Muslim remains in Gaza. They must be eliminated.”

GladioliGreen · 09/08/2025 10:48

Dangermoo · 09/08/2025 10:36

Meanwhile, all Gazans want Israel to remain intact, I presume?

Show quote history

We have heard this kind of rhetoric from Israeli politicians too in an attempt to justify the destruction that would take place. These excuses were in play as far back as Oct 2023, the idea that Palestinians are the ones responsible for their own destruction, even the children, not the people dropping the 2000lb bombs in order to, in their own words, 'eliminate everything'.

"It’s an entire nation out there that is responsible. it’s not true this rhetoric about civilians not aware not involved, it’s absolutely not true …” Isaac Herzog, Israel’s president, said at a press conference on 13 October.

“The children in Gaza have brought this upon themselves,” said Meirav Ben-Ari in the Knesset on 16 of October 2023.

Dangermoo · 09/08/2025 10:48

Martymcfly24 · 09/08/2025 10:45

Very informative post @GladioliGreen . I'm sure we can add even more voices called for the destruction of Gaza.

Seeing Netanyahu smirk as he blames the destruction in Hamas booby traps is sickening.

Even as Israel places ads seeking bulldozer drivers just to finish the job.

Hyperbolic last paragraph.

Dangermoo · 09/08/2025 10:47

KimberleyClark · 09/08/2025 10:43

If Israel claims to be a benign democracy it must be prepared to be judged by the standards all benign democracies are judged by.

Show quote history

Judged yes, within reasonable boundaries, which don't negate the level of imminent danger. I mean, having your race slaughtered in a systematic, orchestrated manner, does tend to have an impact. Particularly when you know that slaughter only touched the surface of your enemy's intentions.

Martymcfly24 · 09/08/2025 10:45

Very informative post @GladioliGreen . I'm sure we can add even more voices called for the destruction of Gaza.

Seeing Netanyahu smirk as he blames the destruction in Hamas booby traps is sickening.

Even as Israel places ads seeking bulldozer drivers just to finish the job.

KimberleyClark · 09/08/2025 10:43

Dangermoo · 09/08/2025 10:38

Absolutely none but Israel is always held to the highest standard. Its oppressors can threaten to eradicate Israel and still come out smelling of roses.

Show quote history

If Israel claims to be a benign democracy it must be prepared to be judged by the standards all benign democracies are judged by.

Dangermoo · 09/08/2025 10:38

OonaStubbs · 09/08/2025 10:01

What reason does Israel have to trust Hamas?

Absolutely none but Israel is always held to the highest standard. Its oppressors can threaten to eradicate Israel and still come out smelling of roses.

Dangermoo · 09/08/2025 10:36

GladioliGreen · 09/08/2025 10:34

Anyone with a little bit of common sense knows that it is impossible that Hamas could be present in so many places. The goal for a long time has been to make Gaza uninhabitable. It was never a secret, Israel were clear that this was their goal. The people who say Hamas are hiding in every building know that it isn't true but they agree with Israels aims. They are actively trying to help Israel achieve them by trying to quieten condemnation for long enough for Israel to get the job done.

They said that they would destroy Gaza and they have while people made excuses for them. Now they say that they want to ethnically cleanse Gaza, they are open about planning on moving all of the population south in preparation and again we are seeing excuses for this. People know exactly what the aim is, they always have, they just happen to agree with it.

Retired Maj Gen Giora Eiland wrote in an Israeli newspaper on Oct 12 2023 that they would turn Gaza into “a place where no human being can exist”.

May Golan, minister for social equality said on Oct 7 2023 "All of Gaza’s infrastructures must be destroyed to its foundation and their electricity cut off immediately. The war is not against Hamas but against the state of Gaza,”

“Now we all have one common goal – erasing the Gaza Strip from the face of the Earth” Nissim Vaturi, deputy speaker of the Israeli parliament, wrote on X on Oct 7 2023.
On Oct 9 2023 he also said that their goal was “To wipe out Gaza. Nothing else will satisfy us … Don’t leave a single child there, expel all the remaining ones in the end, so they have no chance of recovery.”

“Gaza won’t return to what it was before. We will eliminate everything,” then Israeli defence minister Yoav Gallant, said in October 2023.

“There should be 2 goals for this victory: 1. There is no more Muslim land in the Land of Israel ... After we make it the land of IL, Gaza should be left as a monument, like Sodom …”
The words of a member of the knesset in October 2023.

Show quote history

Meanwhile, all Gazans want Israel to remain intact, I presume?

GladioliGreen · 09/08/2025 10:34

EscargotChic · 09/08/2025 08:55

Quite aside from the shooting people trying to get food and the mass starvation (which was obviously going to be the ultimate result of cutting off food aid), the scale of the devastation from the bombing is extraordinary. The first couple of minutes of this video shows it clearly.
People saying Israel are forced to do this because Hamas are hiding in hospitals etc - really? In every home, hospital, school, old people’s home? Every building was sheltering Hamas fighters? Or did they just want to make Gaza uninhabitable as collective punishment of civilians?

Anyone with a little bit of common sense knows that it is impossible that Hamas could be present in so many places. The goal for a long time has been to make Gaza uninhabitable. It was never a secret, Israel were clear that this was their goal. The people who say Hamas are hiding in every building know that it isn't true but they agree with Israels aims. They are actively trying to help Israel achieve them by trying to quieten condemnation for long enough for Israel to get the job done.

They said that they would destroy Gaza and they have while people made excuses for them. Now they say that they want to ethnically cleanse Gaza, they are open about planning on moving all of the population south in preparation and again we are seeing excuses for this. People know exactly what the aim is, they always have, they just happen to agree with it.

Retired Maj Gen Giora Eiland wrote in an Israeli newspaper on Oct 12 2023 that they would turn Gaza into “a place where no human being can exist”.

May Golan, minister for social equality said on Oct 7 2023 "All of Gaza’s infrastructures must be destroyed to its foundation and their electricity cut off immediately. The war is not against Hamas but against the state of Gaza,”

“Now we all have one common goal – erasing the Gaza Strip from the face of the Earth” Nissim Vaturi, deputy speaker of the Israeli parliament, wrote on X on Oct 7 2023.
On Oct 9 2023 he also said that their goal was “To wipe out Gaza. Nothing else will satisfy us … Don’t leave a single child there, expel all the remaining ones in the end, so they have no chance of recovery.”

“Gaza won’t return to what it was before. We will eliminate everything,” then Israeli defence minister Yoav Gallant, said in October 2023.

“There should be 2 goals for this victory: 1. There is no more Muslim land in the Land of Israel ... After we make it the land of IL, Gaza should be left as a monument, like Sodom …”
The words of a member of the knesset in October 2023.

ThisNattyTurtle · 09/08/2025 10:03

By the way this chat has now been booted off the front page onto CITME. I have created a new post on AIBU asking MNHQ why they are discriminating against conversations about the genocide in Gaza

ThisNattyTurtle · 09/08/2025 10:03

OneKookyShark · 09/08/2025 09:54

Wow, can you link to that? It doesn’t really surprise me that much tbh

Show quote history

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DNDqS7XOGg4/?igsh=MW4zczBvOHAxaTlv

Instagram

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DNDqS7XOGg4/?igsh=MW4zczBvOHAxaTlv

OonaStubbs · 09/08/2025 10:01

What reason does Israel have to trust Hamas?

Original poster
OneKookyShark · 09/08/2025 09:54

ThisNattyTurtle · 09/08/2025 08:41

Israeli hostage negotiator has come out and said, Hamas twice offered him the return of all Israeli hostages, and Hamas leaving power, in exchange for Israel pulling back out of the Gaza Strip, freeing the 5000 Palestinian hostages (470 children), and allowing food and medical aid through the siege. In other words, for applying international law. Israel chose to continue to commit genocide and land grab, instead of following international law and getting their hostages home safely.

Wow, can you link to that? It doesn’t really surprise me that much tbh

OP posts:
MNHQ
KimMumsnet · 09/08/2025 09:35

Hi, OP. We've now moved your thread from AIBU to the CITME board, just to let you know.

JSMill · 09/08/2025 09:07

I was saying to my dh that, in the absence of an international media presence, doctors are providing eyewitness testimony to the horrors that are going on. As a result, I wonder if the Israelis will stop letting them in.

EscargotChic · 09/08/2025 08:55

Quite aside from the shooting people trying to get food and the mass starvation (which was obviously going to be the ultimate result of cutting off food aid), the scale of the devastation from the bombing is extraordinary. The first couple of minutes of this video shows it clearly.
People saying Israel are forced to do this because Hamas are hiding in hospitals etc - really? In every home, hospital, school, old people’s home? Every building was sheltering Hamas fighters? Or did they just want to make Gaza uninhabitable as collective punishment of civilians?

KimberleyClark · 09/08/2025 08:51

ThisNattyTurtle · 09/08/2025 08:41

Israeli hostage negotiator has come out and said, Hamas twice offered him the return of all Israeli hostages, and Hamas leaving power, in exchange for Israel pulling back out of the Gaza Strip, freeing the 5000 Palestinian hostages (470 children), and allowing food and medical aid through the siege. In other words, for applying international law. Israel chose to continue to commit genocide and land grab, instead of following international law and getting their hostages home safely.

My god.

MissyB1 · 09/08/2025 08:47

ThisNattyTurtle · 09/08/2025 08:45

British surgeon who was in Gaza testifying on the tracking and killing of a nurse and this family in their tent by an Israeli quadcopter (drone with machine guns).

No words, just so horrendous 😭

ThisNattyTurtle · 09/08/2025 08:45

British surgeon who was in Gaza testifying on the tracking and killing of a nurse and this family in their tent by an Israeli quadcopter (drone with machine guns).

ThisNattyTurtle · 09/08/2025 08:41

Israeli hostage negotiator has come out and said, Hamas twice offered him the return of all Israeli hostages, and Hamas leaving power, in exchange for Israel pulling back out of the Gaza Strip, freeing the 5000 Palestinian hostages (470 children), and allowing food and medical aid through the siege. In other words, for applying international law. Israel chose to continue to commit genocide and land grab, instead of following international law and getting their hostages home safely.