Does the CITME forum negatively affect your mental health?

It's the little things that have no purpose at all but to increase suffering that really give away their intentions isn't it?

Short answer: there isn’t a single authoritative, public dataset that cleanly attributes every death “to Hamas” since 2008. Most reputable trackers count total Israeli/Palestinian fatalities without assigning a perpetrator for each case.

What we can say with confidence:

On October 7, 2023, Hamas and allied groups killed about 1,175 people in Israel (725 Israeli civilians, 71 foreign nationals, and 379 Israeli security personnel), based on Israel’s later‐revised totals.

From 2008 to September 2023 (pre–Oct 7), 308 Israelis were killed in conflict incidents involving Palestinians (this figure isn’t broken down by group; OCHA is the underlying source).

Putting those together gives a floor of roughly ~1,480 Israelis and foreign nationals killed since 2008, with the vast majority on Oct 7 attributable to Hamas and allied groups. But a precise “Hamas-only, since 2008” total isn’t available from public, reputable datasets, and pre–2023 figures typically mix multiple factions (Hamas, Islamic Jihad, others).

From ChatGpt on how many people have Hamas killed since 2008.

It’s not about who’s ‘worse’- I condemn both.

I focus on Israel because they’re the ones killing civilians, levelling neighbourhoods, and blocking aid right now. Hamas’s crimes on Oct 7th were appalling, but they’re not the ones bombing hospitals today.

Nice try, but I’m not here to play your point-scoring game- my stance is consistent.

I think Boris thinks Israel is worse.

Still, perhaps you could settle this question for us @Wedonttalkaboutboris about which side you consider worse?

I haven’t seen it… anyway I can see that you are not at all interested in listing Hamas atrocities which was predictable.

If you hate Israel because you believe they are committing a genocide, who don’t you hate Hamas for committing a massacre?

So whos worse? Israel or Hamas?

And I'm guessing you'll say Hamas is worse? But if thats the case why direct all your time and hatred to denouncing Israel rather than calling for Hamas to just surrender? Or maybe I'm wrong?

Would you prefer a Hamas surrender and disarm and disband or an Israel ceasefire?

You can't keep using complicity as a reason unless youre suggesting civilians are complicit in the actions of their governments? Which I thought was established to be a bad road to go down?

And do you honestly think posting on mumsnet is a civic responsibility?

maybe because Israel are committing a genocide?

And you ask why I repeat myself so much?

Just to be clear, I have condemned Hamas repeatedly, often more than some on these threads have ever condemned Israel. The reason I compiled Israel’s actions into a detailed list is because the UK/US governments arm, fund, and politically shield them. That makes documenting their crimes a civic responsibility. Highlighting Israel’s record doesn’t mean I ignore Hamas; it reflects where the power lies and where our own complicity exists.

It’s disgusting, isn’t it. I also read a doctor describe how, when the IDF left a hospital they’d occupied, they destroyed all the equipment- including cutting every single wire to the hospital’s only ultrasound machine. There was something particularly insidiously evil about that last detail.

The shooting people who try and fish gets me everytime. Like you are so committed to starving people that you won't even let them fish?! It's so psychopathic and wicked. It really leaves no doubt what the Palestinian people are up against.

Yes I've got something to say.
Its all absolutely awful.
As are all wars.
No chance of burying it as you say I'd like to do, its the most visible conflict in the world.
I've also studied, amongst others, the Rwandan genocide, ww2, the Korean War, the Civil War in America, the War on Terror post 9/11, and I'm of the opinion that humans are aggressive apes with the ability to tell stories to excuse the most awful atrocities.
And in this particular war, Hamas are the least good option to support.

I cannot see how anyone could take the position that Israel is the worst, but I do keep trying.

I would also be interested in seeing your exhaustive list against Hamas @Wedonttalkaboutboris because I’ve never seen you post much criticism of Hamas but I’ve seen lots of threads with you posting the list you have against Israel, whether it’s the topic being discussed or not.

Like this one that was supposed to be a space to talk about mental health but No - you bought out the exhaustive list against Israel once again.

Reminds me of this quote by Netanyahu from Historian Max Hastings autobiography:

Source: Max Hastings, Going to the Wars (London: Macmillan, 2000), p. 251

Nothing has changed, the plan has always been to take all the land.

For the hundredth time, it’s not just about releasing the hostages.

Why do you keep pretending that’s all Netanyahu wanted so he should have been happy when Hamas offered hostages to be returned. Either you’re very slow at understanding- which I don’t think you are - or you’re just pretending to keep forgetting it was never JUST about the hostages. Hamas also needs to disarm and leave Gaza, at least the militants & any leaders still alive in Gaza.

Yes, I'll acknowledge Israels atrocities. The aid system is a dystopian farce. Its inhuman. Its unspeakably cruel. The aid should be going in even if the pudgy terrorists get some. War crimes have been commited. Hind Rajab broke my heart as much as the Bibas children did. BN doesn't want a 2ss. His kissing up to the religious extremists is a stain on a country specifically set up as secular.
For all these sins, and many more, Israeli actions and administration deserve to be criticized and prosecuted.

However. Israel is still a democracy. Her people may vote. Human rights are respected. The people are protected from war by an iron dome. Their governments care about them. And I'm a zionist. I do not believe they are settler colonialists, Israel is their homeland back after years of oppression and the worst actual genocide the world has ever seen.

What has Hamas done for its people?

Thats why I take Israels part in this.

Now, where's your list of Hamas atrocities carefully compiled like the Israeli one? You took time to compile that- did you take equal or more time to compile what Hamas has done to its own people?

Because it looks to me like you hate Israel more than you hate Hamas.

We sell military equipment to many countries, Saudi included. You know Saudi who have the situation with Yemen?

That would be everyone then?
Certainly at no point have I ever said I’m pro-Hamas.

I get depressed reading these threads when there are children being murdered as we speak! I see the same users online for 7+ hours a day denying all evidence, repeating the same exhausted phrases over and over, calling human rights organisations, newspapers, governments, the UN, doctors and journalists pro hamas, calling video footage of atrocities fake, murder victims Hamas but I think for some promoting Israel is their full time job. There are far more users calling out the genocide than denying it - the genocide deniers are in the minority it just seems like there are more of them from how they post for hours on end and try to shut down dialogue. You have probably all noticed as well that the main frequent fliers are on some threads but not others - some pro Israel posters are never on the same thread as each other which suggests a few name changes which makes it seem like they are in bigger numbers. Some of these are likely to be posting from Israel. I actually haven’t met a single person in real life defending Israel in the last few months - I met one in the early stages in 2023 but even he has changed his tune.

As depressing and frustrating as these circular conversations and sweeping accusations without evidence are we are in a fortunate position. There are people out there who do not know if they will be alive tomorrow, people missing limbs, people taking their last breaths under rubble, people starving slowly to death. All we can do is speak out against genocide because those who don’t are allowing it to happen.

Yet, you’ve got nothing to say about this have you:

180,000 buildings levelled to target 30,000 Hamas. A 6:1 civilian to combatant death ratio. Nearly 20,000 children killed. Were the terrorists hiding in the line when those children were killed queueing for water? Have they been hiding in the baby formula?
Why are you rehashing the same arguments that have been disproved with verified sources time and time again. Oh, actually I know why.
Israel is entirely responsible for the man-made famine in Gaza. Every credible report- from the UN, WHO, and other humanitarian agencies- shows that aid is being blocked or destroyed by the blockade and ongoing Israeli strikes.
I’ve seen images of IDF soldiers posing with children’s toys and teddy bears today. The toys of the children whose house they just destroyed and they probably killed. Absolutely disgusting.

Where are your sources for these claims @Gloriia ??

Happy to acknowledge Hamas’s crimes (and I have). Will you acknowledge Israel’s- with the same energy- given our governments arm and defend them?

'they have blocked all aid to the region for months. How exactly do you think Hamas have a secret stash of aid, where would they get it from?'

Hmm well we've seen all the truckloads on the gazan side? We've seen very well fed terrorists parading about.

Israel should let international journalists in that's one thing I'll criticise them for just so we aren't getting all our info from hamas journalists and hamas led health ministries. Granted they'd probably get abducted and held hostage but they seem happy to take the risk so up to them really. As long as they don't expect rescuing obviously.

The price of food in Gaza is a good indicator.

I am grateful for the anti-Hamas posters, makes me feel like I’m not going crazy.

'Israel is entirely responsible for the man-made famine in Gaza'

Yep nothing to do with fat terrorists eating it all and stealing aid to sell, oh nooo it's all Israel! Do you really believe this it's all Israels faulf? It's like the IDF said if they wanted to 'do a genocide' this would have been over 2yrs ago.