Many pro-Palestinians DO actually support Hamas

Funny how these westerners are never allowed to see footage of Hamas setting booby traps and tunnels in entrances to public places, such as schools and hospitals. Hamas let westerners see what the terrorist scum want westerners to see.

Your bias is clearly showing in your post. What evidence do you need that arab countries don't want jews to exist? Do you know the full history of the region, including how it were jewish and Christians persecuted and dehumanised centuries ago? You want your version to be true because to believe otherwise wouldn't sit comfortably.

Thanks for providing this- I’ll have a look through it.

millions of people have seen footage and read reports showing how decades of Israeli occupation, blockade, and settlement expansion laid the groundwork for the current humanitarian catastrophe

This worries me. That Westerners who have never given a shit about ME politics are suddenly so "well informed".

You can believe that this all started with Israel's oppression, I don't
And that's exactly how the world is divided depending on all the factors that influences our beliefs. The same discussion is taking place in every part of the world, has done so for centuries and will continue to do so until.....well at the moment, noone knows.

You can be the most educated and knowledgeable on the matter on MN, or think you are, whichever, but there will be similar people with as much education and knowledge, maybe here on MN or the public domain who will think totally different to you.

You can quote a very experienced rational and credible person, but you can be sure someone could quote another figure with the same qualities and credentials who think the exact opposite.

In these instances, it's much interesting to hear equally from both sides than to try to convince others that they are wrong and they know better than them.

Thanks- this is something I’ve noticed and has definitely given me something to read up on/some pause for thought.

I broadly agree with you OP, but not in the context of the current starvation crisis.

I'm really quite far to the left of the Labour Party - very enthused by Jeremy Corbyn initially, but my eyes were opened when his defence of that mural re-emerged. I've seen some instances of the most overt and hateful types of antisemitism, but it has been truly shocking to me to realize how widespread the more insidious forms of antisemitism are.

The willingness to conflate Jews with Israel is an obvious one, the use of Hamas-type chants (from the river...globalize...) is another, misuse of "Zionism" as a term, revisionist history, etc etc. I've written at length about this in other contexts and challenged folks - friends included - in person and other non-Mumsnet contexts.

I actually think that large parts of the Pro-Pelstine movement in the UK is more aligned with Hamas than with moderate Palestinians (sometimes deliberately, more often ignorantly), in a way that hurts the peace process - and centres Western upset over on-the-ground suffering.

All of that notwithstanding, I remain disturbed by how the situation in Gaza has developed over time, and profoundly so in terms of food insecurity. I believe there is widespread starvation, largely attributable to Israeli policy, and that it is deliberate.

The uncritical support for Israel from some, on that sole issue, and how it has been expressed on here recently, has ranged from concerning to appalling.

I understand where you’re coming from, but it seems we fundamentally disagree on where the responsibility lies for how this conflict escalated.

To me, millions of people have seen footage and read reports showing how decades of Israeli occupation, blockade, and settlement expansion laid the groundwork for the current humanitarian catastrophe. That isn’t “just briefly acknowledging what happened”- it’s acknowledging a prolonged reality that no ceasefire could erase overnight.

I condemn Hamas unequivocally. Their October 7th attacks were horrific and unjustifiable.
But saying “Arabs don’t want Jews to exist” isn’t a serious analysis- it’s a sweeping generalisation that veers into hate speech. It erases the diversity of opinion across the Arab world and replaces it with a dehumanising caricature. That doesn’t help any meaningful conversation or peace.

If you’re claiming that Hamas has covert backing from Muslim Brotherhood-aligned actors, fair enough- but back it up with credible sources. Broad claims about whole ethnic or religious groups “not wanting Jews to exist” just inflame and oversimplify. They don’t lead us anywhere useful.

Do you have anything to say about the video I’ve shared, and Israeli’s deep seated attitudes towards Palestinians?

No, people refer to the but Hamas rhetoric because it's always only briefly acknowledging what they did. This is the absolute underpinning of what's going on in this conflict. You can believe that this all started with Israel's oppression, I don't. Arabs do not want Jews to exist and Hamas are getting a heck of a lot more covert support to ensure their mission is completed. That includes arab nations, who don't want to deal with palestine but share the Muslim Brotherhood ideology of Islam ruling the Middle East. Judaism is in its way.

Why do the Western pro-Palestinians seem to think that is so impossible that it’s not even worth mentioning?
You're talking politics and religion, I'm talking human day to day life outside of religion and politics.

Ultimately, it comes down to that. How many people, and which people are truly prepared to suffer hell on earth for their religious and political beliefs?

Isn't there a time when it's significance becomes meaningless when you are are prepared to eat rats and drink filthy water that you know will make you ill and see your children dying in pain? Or does your faith in religion and politics turn you in model martyrs who will accepting the worse suffering for the cause?

The idea that the war “could have ended” if Hamas had just surrendered ignores quite a bit of context.

Plenty of people, Palestinian and otherwise, have condemned Hamas. But the point many are trying to make is this: it’s entirely possible to oppose Hamas and hold Israel accountable for policies that have devastated civilian life in Gaza long before October 7th.

Demanding that Western pro-Palestinians should focus on pressuring Hamas also seems odd when they have no influence over them. Do we expect Israeli citizens to topple Netanyahu in order to earn the right to grieve or protest? Do we only support Ukrainian civilians if they loudly disavow all Ukrainian military decisions?

People say “but Hamas” sarcastically because it’s become a rhetorical deflection- used to shut down any discussion of mass suffering, aid obstruction, or disproportionate force. It’s not that people don’t think Hamas is responsible for anything. It’s that they’re exhausted by the refusal to acknowledge multiple causes of civilian death, and the framing that insists only one side deserves scrutiny.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DMyeeEENFzh/?igsh=MTYzcjk4bDdzamxhZA==

This is… horrifying. Even if this was meant as satire, it says a lot about how dehumanised Palestinians have become in mainstream Israeli discourse. Imagine saying this about any group of children and not being instantly reviled.

Support for Hamas is directly fuelling this war to continue
I would like to think that any person experiencing undescribable suffering through torture, being starvation, captivity, fear and the rest stops to care at one point whose fault it is and only hope that the torture ends immediately. Surely your focus must changed completely. When you see your children dying one after the other, when you are locked and beaten to death, you just want at that point for all of it to be over rather than engage in political debates. Survival takes over.

Only people like us, in the safety of our safe home can enjoy the luxury of deciding who is evil and who are victims.

Luckily, MN deletes the posts, which call posters supporters of child murder. I've had several twisting my posts and MN have been quick to act.

I watched it this morning. He confirmed what the non brainwashed already suspected. It's well worth a watch.

So naive.

I don’t believe this is true. People want to see the end of the death and suffering because they don’t want that for anyone.
Most pro Palestinians are not anti Jewish or anti Israeli. They just want this awful treatment and killing of Palestinians to end.
They wouldn’t wish this on anyone.

I used the Iraq war as an analogy for how entire populations can suffer under policies or invasions supposedly aimed at specific targets. Not because the two conflicts are identical in every way, but because they raise questions about proportionality, justification, and the human cost of military action.

To your questions:

• Yes, the Iraq war was widely criticised after the fact, once the devastation was clear and the WMD narrative fell apart. At the time, large parts of the media and political class did echo official lines uncritically, just as we’re seeing now in some coverage of Gaza.
• Yes, there were civilian deaths on both sides, and many justified them as “collateral damage” in the name of rooting out terror… sound familiar?
• Iraqi civilians were absolutely persecuted, tortured, and killed, including in incidents like Abu Ghraib, Fallujah, and others. These were “inevitable consequences” of an occupation too.
• And no, Iraqis weren’t “offered land” because it wasn’t about shrinking their country block by block over decades under occupation while being denied basic rights.

No conflict is a perfect comparison, but history is full of examples where powerful states claimed moral or security reasons while civilians paid the highest price.

There’s a big difference between supporting the rights of a civilian population under siege and endorsing the group in power. We don’t assume people who criticised the US invasion of Iraq were “secretly” pro-Saddam.

OP didn't say that all people who are pro-Palestinian or critical of the Israeli government support Hamas.

The suggestion is that "many" of them do & the arguments used do suggest that at least some do.

Personally, I think it's true that some of the above people do secretly support Hamas, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that "many" do.

I think it’s important to challenge the idea that being pro-Palestinian or critical of the Israeli government automatically equates to support for Hamas. That’s simply not true. I say that as someone who is appalled by the actions of both Hamas and the current Israeli leadership.

Many people are marching and speaking out because they’re horrified by the scale of destruction, civilian deaths, and humanitarian crisis in Gaza. That is not the same thing as condoning Hamas or justifying the October 7th attacks. The vast majority of people I know who express solidarity with Palestinians also condemn violence, whether it's Hamas rockets or Israeli bombardment.

It’s also worth pointing out that this conflation is often weaponised and used to shut down dissent or smear those who are calling for a ceasefire or questioning disproportionate responses. Some people might support Hamas, yes, but many more are simply calling for accountability, justice, and human rights. That should be allowed without being accused of harbouring secret allegiances to terrorism.

We have to be able to hold multiple truths at once. Grief for Israeli victims and horror at antisemitic attacks can and should coexist with empathy for Palestinian civilians and criticism of Israel’s policies. None of this is simple and painting people who care about Gaza as “useful idiots” or worse does nothing to move the conversation forward