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Conflict in the Middle East

Protest Greek island.

140 replies

PaxAeterna · 23/07/2025 12:20

I initially thought that they have been stopped from entering by the Greek authorities but it seems the ship itself made a call to move on. The protest itself was peaceful with no violence reported.

Have mixed thoughts about this one: I don’t really like people protesting at people who ultimately can’t do anything about the situation. On the other hand making life uncomfortable for Israeli tourists inadvertently puts pressure on the Israeli government.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/22/israeli-cruise-rerouted-after-aegean-islanders-protest-gaza-war

Israeli cruise ship turned away from Greek island by Gaza war protest

Tourists greeted on Syros by banner saying Stop the Genocide and prevented from disembarking

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/22/israeli-cruise-rerouted-after-aegean-islanders-protest-gaza-war

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PaxAeterna · 24/07/2025 12:39

As I have explained many times this is a foreign war but lsrael is an ally and that’s what makes it different. This atrocity committed both by Israel and by the US who has just as much blood on their hands now has been enabled by the EU and the UK’s initial actions and now their inaction.

It should never have got to this. And it really is up to Israel’s allies to do everything to stop it.

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mumandmumber · 24/07/2025 12:37

The trickiest part of propaganda is realising that it never feels like persuasion.
It feels like truth you arrived at yourself.

Not many humans can accept the realisation they they’ve been victims of it.

I apply this to both ‘sides’.

quantumbutterfly · 24/07/2025 12:23

PaxAeterna · 24/07/2025 12:13

What is your point? Surely it is wrong what happens to protesters in Hong Kong. That’s literally why I am defending peaceful protest.
I don’t think that the protesters in Greece should be treated badly and I would hope that you wouldn’t either.

Hong Kong Chinese protesting Chinese rule.
Georgian citizens (ex USSR) protesting Russian invasion of a nation state.

Greeks protesting a specific foreign war, among many other devastating wars in the same region. What makes them focus on Israel and Israelis specifically. @mumandmumber 's Instagram link rings true.

A whole board here called 'conflict in the middle east' that appeared after a genocidal attack on Israel and there's virtual tumbleweed when any other conflict in the middle east is mentioned. Makes me Spidey senses tingle, but as ever on mn you do you and I'll do me.

PaxAeterna · 24/07/2025 12:13

quantumbutterfly · 24/07/2025 11:54

And yet that doesn't get masses of newsprint or whole boards on Mumsnet. I'm sure Google will tell you what happens to anti china protesters in Hong Kong, though not Taiwan (yet) or Vietnam.

So glad you understood my reference, the MO of Palestinian terrorists is often brushed over in the villification of Israel.

What is your point? Surely it is wrong what happens to protesters in Hong Kong. That’s literally why I am defending peaceful protest.
I don’t think that the protesters in Greece should be treated badly and I would hope that you wouldn’t either.

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quantumbutterfly · 24/07/2025 12:07

PaxAeterna · 24/07/2025 11:58

Just googled your Russia question and yes a Russian cruise ship was met with quite a nasty protest in Georgia. They hurled eggs at them and told them to go home though. This seemed very focused on Palestine rather than insults and violence. So not quite the same.

And yet you had to Google it. There's a lot of other history between Georgia and Russia of course.

mumandmumber · 24/07/2025 11:59

This video titled “Israel lost the PR war” is relevant to a lot on this thread.

It begins:

”Israel did not feel it had a choice. We wont be killed online, we will be killed in the real world”

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DMex033t-qQ/?igsh=a2tyMWh3ZXl3ZGsz

Instagram

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DMex033t-qQ/?igsh=a2tyMWh3ZXl3ZGsz

PaxAeterna · 24/07/2025 11:58

Just googled your Russia question and yes a Russian cruise ship was met with quite a nasty protest in Georgia. They hurled eggs at them and told them to go home though. This seemed very focused on Palestine rather than insults and violence. So not quite the same.

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quantumbutterfly · 24/07/2025 11:54

PaxAeterna · 24/07/2025 11:35

Again hijacking a ship and holding up protest signs are on completely different levels. One of them is illegal for starters and the other is not.

Peaceful protest is not illegal and should not be restricted. I am only debating the ethics of this. Comparing it to violent, illegal situations where people died will only undermine everything else you say.

Had to google that but yes Chinese tour grips have been met with protest at times. In Taiwan, Hong Kong and Vietnam for starters.

And yet that doesn't get masses of newsprint or whole boards on Mumsnet. I'm sure Google will tell you what happens to anti china protesters in Hong Kong, though not Taiwan (yet) or Vietnam.

So glad you understood my reference, the MO of Palestinian terrorists is often brushed over in the villification of Israel.

mumandmumber · 24/07/2025 11:50

quantumbutterfly · 24/07/2025 10:26

Are you saying it's okay to target Russians and Chinese because of their respective governments? Is it fair game to have a crack at Afghans, Iranians, Pakistanis, Saudis, Yemenis, Sudanese, Syrians ?

I'm sure there's a word for that

Well said.

PaxAeterna · 24/07/2025 11:48

It's not about peaceful protest, it's about targeting one nationality over every other as if they are uniquely bad

Israelis are not uniquely bad. This war has many supporters outside of Israel, that is the main problem for me. A sign holding up Israelis are bad would be wrong. A sigh saying Stop the genocide in Gaza is not wrong because it is talking about the Israeli action in Gaza. I’m sure you can see the difference. Even though you don’t agree with what they say; surely you can see it is different.

I don’t think Israel should be treated in any unique way: it would be my preference that the EU end their current visa agreement with Israel, exactly like they did with Russia. that would be effective action as part of a suite of sanctions that aim to put pressure on the Israeli government to stop killing people.

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PaxAeterna · 24/07/2025 11:35

quantumbutterfly · 24/07/2025 11:05

Have we seen Chinese tourists targeted? It's all gone quiet over Tibet too, though I hear the dalai lama plans to live till 140 to stop the Chinese government taking over his reincarnation.

As far as I can see, ordinary citizens of Russia and China are not being targeted.

This incident gives me uncomfortable echoes of the Achille Lauro. It's not about peaceful protest, it's about targeting one nationality over every other as if they are uniquely bad.

Again hijacking a ship and holding up protest signs are on completely different levels. One of them is illegal for starters and the other is not.

Peaceful protest is not illegal and should not be restricted. I am only debating the ethics of this. Comparing it to violent, illegal situations where people died will only undermine everything else you say.

Had to google that but yes Chinese tour grips have been met with protest at times. In Taiwan, Hong Kong and Vietnam for starters.

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quantumbutterfly · 24/07/2025 11:05

PaxAeterna · 24/07/2025 10:43

I said I was in two minds actually about protests that are at people. It is not a clear target for an effective protest.

But If a cruise ship full of tourists from any of those countries you mentioned arrived to a peaceful protest about something their government is doing. Well I don’t think it is racist actually?

Like if a Chinese cruise ship arrived and people were holding up signs saying Stop the genocide of the Uyghurs. Even though many of the Chinese don’t even know the truth what is happening because of censoring, I don’t see how this would be racist.

With your Russia example, the EU suspended its visa agreement with Russia because of the war.

Have we seen Chinese tourists targeted? It's all gone quiet over Tibet too, though I hear the dalai lama plans to live till 140 to stop the Chinese government taking over his reincarnation.

As far as I can see, ordinary citizens of Russia and China are not being targeted.

This incident gives me uncomfortable echoes of the Achille Lauro. It's not about peaceful protest, it's about targeting one nationality over every other as if they are uniquely bad.

PaxAeterna · 24/07/2025 10:46

Comedycook · 24/07/2025 10:34

Targeting people because of their nationality is not ok though...

Targeting people with violence or insults would be wrong.

Targeting Israeli owned tourist companies/tours with peaceful protest is just not on the same level.

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PaxAeterna · 24/07/2025 10:43

quantumbutterfly · 24/07/2025 10:26

Are you saying it's okay to target Russians and Chinese because of their respective governments? Is it fair game to have a crack at Afghans, Iranians, Pakistanis, Saudis, Yemenis, Sudanese, Syrians ?

I'm sure there's a word for that

I said I was in two minds actually about protests that are at people. It is not a clear target for an effective protest.

But If a cruise ship full of tourists from any of those countries you mentioned arrived to a peaceful protest about something their government is doing. Well I don’t think it is racist actually?

Like if a Chinese cruise ship arrived and people were holding up signs saying Stop the genocide of the Uyghurs. Even though many of the Chinese don’t even know the truth what is happening because of censoring, I don’t see how this would be racist.

With your Russia example, the EU suspended its visa agreement with Russia because of the war.

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Comedycook · 24/07/2025 10:34

PaxAeterna · 24/07/2025 10:12

Why are you comparing Tony Robinson getting a mob together to harass people because of their religion with a peaceful protest that targeted people because of their nationality?

You’re talking about two different things. Protesting is not harassment.

Targeting people because of their nationality is not ok though...

quantumbutterfly · 24/07/2025 10:26

PaxAeterna · 24/07/2025 10:12

Why are you comparing Tony Robinson getting a mob together to harass people because of their religion with a peaceful protest that targeted people because of their nationality?

You’re talking about two different things. Protesting is not harassment.

Are you saying it's okay to target Russians and Chinese because of their respective governments? Is it fair game to have a crack at Afghans, Iranians, Pakistanis, Saudis, Yemenis, Sudanese, Syrians ?

I'm sure there's a word for that

PaxAeterna · 24/07/2025 10:12

Voxon · 24/07/2025 08:06

You are justifying yourself here by pretending that harassing israelis saves Gaza and therefore those being racist to israelis are doing so because theyre so kind.

It doesn't save Gaza. It does nothing for Gaza. If anything it pushes the average israeli towards realising the world hates them so fuck the world. If anything, Hamas sees it and is egged on to keep going.

Similarly if Tommy Robinson gets a mob together to harass random Muslims it wouldn't get the hostages released. It wouldn't get women freedom in Afghanistan.

So why do you pretend you"re helping people ? All it is, frankly, is racist. Pretty classic racist.

Why are you comparing Tony Robinson getting a mob together to harass people because of their religion with a peaceful protest that targeted people because of their nationality?

You’re talking about two different things. Protesting is not harassment.

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Comedycook · 24/07/2025 10:07

Babyboomtastic · 24/07/2025 10:04

If I'm standing next to two children, one that's being verbally bullied and the other is being stabbed, I'd save the one being stabbed first.

But that's not the choice is it?

The nothing is worse than dying children line could be used to shut down absolutely any discussion on absolutely anything ever.

Babyboomtastic · 24/07/2025 10:04

Comedycook · 24/07/2025 08:54

By this logic, if your child was being bullied, would you try to tackle it or would you think well the children in Gaza have it much worse so stop complaining...?

If I'm standing next to two children, one that's being verbally bullied and the other is being stabbed, I'd save the one being stabbed first.

Comedycook · 24/07/2025 08:54

Babyboomtastic · 24/07/2025 08:51

Not racist at all. I'm not protesting about it because I've only got limited energy, and genocide is more serious than hurty feelings.

Insisting that someone supports every hurty feeling cause before they can be justified in supporting ending genocide is despicable.

By this logic, if your child was being bullied, would you try to tackle it or would you think well the children in Gaza have it much worse so stop complaining...?

Babyboomtastic · 24/07/2025 08:51

Voxon · 24/07/2025 08:06

You are justifying yourself here by pretending that harassing israelis saves Gaza and therefore those being racist to israelis are doing so because theyre so kind.

It doesn't save Gaza. It does nothing for Gaza. If anything it pushes the average israeli towards realising the world hates them so fuck the world. If anything, Hamas sees it and is egged on to keep going.

Similarly if Tommy Robinson gets a mob together to harass random Muslims it wouldn't get the hostages released. It wouldn't get women freedom in Afghanistan.

So why do you pretend you"re helping people ? All it is, frankly, is racist. Pretty classic racist.

Not racist at all. I'm not protesting about it because I've only got limited energy, and genocide is more serious than hurty feelings.

Insisting that someone supports every hurty feeling cause before they can be justified in supporting ending genocide is despicable.

Voxon · 24/07/2025 08:06

Babyboomtastic · 24/07/2025 07:37

I despite Tommy Robinson and everything he stands for. But in the grand scheme of things, he's inconsequential compared with what is going on in Gaza. Hence me posting about Gaza and not about Robinson.

Killing babies needs to be stopped more than someone hurting feelings. Every. Single. Time.

You are justifying yourself here by pretending that harassing israelis saves Gaza and therefore those being racist to israelis are doing so because theyre so kind.

It doesn't save Gaza. It does nothing for Gaza. If anything it pushes the average israeli towards realising the world hates them so fuck the world. If anything, Hamas sees it and is egged on to keep going.

Similarly if Tommy Robinson gets a mob together to harass random Muslims it wouldn't get the hostages released. It wouldn't get women freedom in Afghanistan.

So why do you pretend you"re helping people ? All it is, frankly, is racist. Pretty classic racist.

Babyboomtastic · 24/07/2025 07:37

I despite Tommy Robinson and everything he stands for. But in the grand scheme of things, he's inconsequential compared with what is going on in Gaza. Hence me posting about Gaza and not about Robinson.

Killing babies needs to be stopped more than someone hurting feelings. Every. Single. Time.

soupyspoon · 24/07/2025 07:09

Voxon · 23/07/2025 23:04

I'm angry about things happening right now in somewhere around 80% of the countries in the world. Shall I start harassing random citizens of those countries?

I'm angry about a wide variety of horrific things going on in the world right now in the name of Islam. Shall I start harassing random Muslims?

What the difference between this and Tommy Robinson getting a mob together and protesting outside Mosques?

Absolutely this, its outrageous that people think this is ok and then because people think its outrageous suddenly it means they 'not upset' about the situation in Gaza.

What a joke!

Voxon · 23/07/2025 23:04

Babyboomtastic · 23/07/2025 21:30

It's a genuine question. I'm guessing you think the obvious answer is 2, but I'm struggling to believe that when I've not seen either poster who took offence at this, being upset at the collective punishment going on in Gaza.

If someone isn't livid at babies being starved to death because they are being punished for being Gazan, then I don't get how someone can be livid at rich tourists being grumped at for being Israeli. Either it's wrong to punish a society for their government, or it isn't.

Hurty feelings are insignificant compared with death. Neither are right, but let's try and stop the death but first, or it genuinely looks like you care more about those hurty feelings than the dead babies. Hence why I don't think you can see both Gazans and Israelis as equals.

Edited

I'm angry about things happening right now in somewhere around 80% of the countries in the world. Shall I start harassing random citizens of those countries?

I'm angry about a wide variety of horrific things going on in the world right now in the name of Islam. Shall I start harassing random Muslims?

What the difference between this and Tommy Robinson getting a mob together and protesting outside Mosques?