At long last the police are cracking down on hard marches

it’s not just that people have a different opinion, it’s that they’re not stopping to ask deeper questions about why Palestine Action has been labelled this way in the first place. They just accept that because the government has put them on a list, they must be bad, without wondering for a second what the political reasons behind that decision might be or whether there’s something bigger going on.

It’s frustrating to see people switch off their critical thinking the moment they hear the word t3rorism as if that’s the end of the conversation and no further thought is needed. They stop engaging with what’s actually happening, they stop looking at the reasons behind the protests or the idea that civil disobedience can sometimes be justified, and they don’t even pause to question whether the government might be using this label to shut down. This blind acceptance feels like people are just going along with state power without even realising it, like they’re swallowing whatever they’re told without thinking it through. It’s not just their opinion that frustrates me, it’s the lack of curiosity and the fact they’re not even questioning how they arrived at that opinion.

Apologies, I must have missed it. The only post I saw was one where you said you marched with a Jewish friend which doesn't address this particular point.

This is also a point I have already responded on before so🤷🏻‍♀️

@SisforSusanna I also genuinely don't know how marching alongside open, blatant racists in the safety of Western cities, calling for the destruction of Israel and 'Zionists' (Jews) will bring it about.

Ofc it is a decades long conflict no one can resolve, but I was asked about what I wanted to happen I think. I think most people want to end the humanitarian crisis yes? I think most people want a 2 state solution and that is very unlikely to happen with Hamas and BN all loved up together. Neither care for peace and feed off each other.

This is so simplistic that I just don't know what to say. Who is going to wave the magic wand to make this happen?

I know you think you are being super clever, but I have closed this part of the conversation down for my part. It doesn’t really matter if I say, yes this is part of their doctrine. Another poster will just come in and and ask me why I haven’t solved the conflict in Sudan yet. I would like to discuss with more progressive and moderate people who don’t think the only solution is to bomb the shit out of Gaza.

Just as I thought @SisforSusanna you won’t admit that is their doctrine. That’s why when we see people on these marches we think they are either deluded or Hamas supporters. Until the reality of the situation is faced, you’re just pissing in the wind.

No because I have already responded that I am so tired of batting back and forwards on the same points. At the moment I am reading a lot of opinion pieces coming out of Israel which I find much more interesting and hopeful than these threads which is just same old.

@SisforSusanna of course I’ve heard it before. But as we keep saying, due to their doctrine of wanting all Jews dead (everywhere) it won’t work. Can’t you at least acknowledge that is their doctrine and how you can possibly think they can go against their own doctrine to come to this agreement? They just can’t. It’s like asking them to change their religion.

When I say Israel I mean BNs blood thirsty government.

Yes pretty much spot on that Israel does not want a solution. BN and Hamas need each other.

I don’t need to be blessed by you.

Have you really not heard this argument before?
Its pretty much what most moderate voices think should happen.

...to put it mildly. But presumably s/he has far better ideas than those with their very existence at stake and access to military intelligence. Silly old Israel just can't be arsed working out a simple solution, oh hold on it's because they are enjoying their killing spree, etc etc.

oh bless you. You think Hamas would agree to that? They’d tell you anything to your face but their agenda, their doctrine, will remain unchanged. And they are just puppets of Iran. It’s a way bigger issue.

I didn’t say it was easy, but it’s a fairly accepted view in the international community that a 2 state solution is the way forward. It’s not something I have dreamt up. I also think both NB and Hamas don’t have their own peoples interest at heart. Also not a controversial opinion, even within Israel…

If people think the solution is simple enough to crowdsource on a parenting forum, they should crack on. Not sure how you're going to overthrow two governments and install new ones of your choosing, but it sounds like you're on top of it.

Sarcasm aside, people should knock themselves out if they want to attach to causes. I'll support them all the way even if I disagree with their ideas: but the protests every week are wasting our resources, and are menacing to the Jewish community and indeed to others.

There's no reason at all anybody needs a mask or a hezbollah flag or to use tropes or go anywhere near a single Jewish business or synagogue. A terrible precedent has been set with this awful behaviour.

From where I'm standing two years this has gone on and no Palestinians have been helped at all.

New leadership both in Israel and Palestine who can come together and negotiate. First of all, an end to the ceasefire and aid organisations to get free passage to help the civilians in Gaza. This must be aided by Hamas and Israel as both parties are an obstacle to ending the humanitarian crisis.

How you propose to achieve it is unclear.

It’s just confusing for you that someone can be against the Israeli government and Hamas at the same time. Some people are just black and white and this conflict is not black and white.

I don’t see any posts from me where I think that Hamas wants a 2 state solution. I previously posted that both NB and Hamas are wanted for war crimes. I see them both as war criminals. BN AND Hamas. I want peace for the Palestinian and Israeli people. Is this clear enough?

Absolutely @SharonEllis well said.

@SisforSusanna that’s the way you are coming across. There can be no solution when one side wants to totally annihilate Jews from the earth. It’s part of their doctrine. How do you remedy that? You can’t square a circle.

Good grief. The point is that Hamas doesn't want peace. It doesn't want 2 states. The very constituency that has worked for decades for peace was attacked on 7 October. Look up Oded Lifschitz. He lived at Nir Oz Kibbutz. Despite he and others working with people in Gaza, taki g them to medical appoi tments through the charity Road to Recovery the kibbutz was attacked by rockets prior to 7 October and Hamas built a tunnel near there. They were attacked on 7 Oct, residents tortured, murdered and kidnapped.

Is that why there’s more coverage?