At long last the police are cracking down on hard marches

I agree, there is a strange prurience about the relish some have for the graphic detail. Thank you also for your post. You point to a regularly forgotten side to what people mean when they talk about Israel being held to unrealistic standards, and the lack of empathy to Israelis. The idea that Israel should have responded in a perfectly ideal way, while reeling from the absolute horror and shock of 7 October is so inhumane.

I know. It's all Hasbara...

I try not to get led into detailing things more graphically, as I have come to believe that there are some posters who actually enjoy this 😬

Insignificant because it only happened to Jews who probably deserved it anyway (sarcasm).

I commend you for trying. Many brush aside October 7th, it's all insignificant to them.

Sorry for the daft question, but what do you believe happened on 7 October? Do you think it wasn't as horrific and savage as all that because rape kits etc weren't deployed in the chaos of identifying charred and dismembered bodies? Do you think that the wild jubilation in the streets of Gaza (Shani Louk's mangled naked body being paraded and spat on comes to mind, but there are plenty of other videos) were staged? Are you aware that the attacks were carried out not just by Hamas, but by mobs of Gazan civilians? Do you know that they did far worse things to dead, dying, and living women than dance in their underwear?

Because Gaza-based militant groups had fired over 18,000 rockets and mortars at Israel since Israel’s withdrawal from Gaza in 2005, the IDF thought they had things under control by dealing with these (e.g. Iron Dome) and underestimated Hamas's capacity to carry out a land invasion. You can see from videos of Nova Festival that no one really batted an eyelid at first when they found themselves under rocket fire, becuase that's just an ordinary day. (Imagine that at Glastonbury!) It's only when they heard gunshots that they began to realise something very different was happening.

In response to the atrocities of 7 October, the IDF mobilised over 300,000 reservists to triple its numbers. Many had not served in years, and some were flown in from abroad to rejoin units. There were also “lone soldiers” – volunteers from abroad without family in Israel – driven by rising antisemitism and solidarity after the attack.

In the context of the deadliest and most sadistic attacks on Jews since the Holocaust, it would be surprising if everyone involved in the aftermath – especially those who had to go into such a terrifyingly hostile environment – behaved like a Designated Safeguarding Lead at a junior school in Kent. I wish none of it had happened, but instances of individuals and groups behaving badly are somewhat understandable in the circumstances.

Does it? What is the other side to Israeli men dancing in the underwear of dead Palestinian women? What is so complex about it that means it is oversimplified. I'm hear to listen, tell me what the context is that I need to know about Israeli men dancing in the underwear of dead Palestinian women.

It tells me you have a very one-sided newsfeed that uses an algorithm to feed you only the information that you have already shown an interest in.

That is not to say that these things aren't dreadful, but it oversimplifies the story.

Also Israelis protesting for soldiers to have the right to rape prisoners with impuinty.

The rise in antisemitism or the rise in concern for Palestinians who were being brutalised more and more by Israel. 2023 the bloodiest year for Palestinian children before Oct 7. That was ignored and still is ignored by the pro Israel squad, what does that say to you? Still to this day I don't think I have a single pro Israel person bring up those deaths of their own accord, what does that say to you about the value they put on Palestinians children lives? Israelis cheering as bombs blow apart children and their families, Israelis making up tiktok trends laughing at the suffering their government is inflicting on children, Israelis trashing aid so children can't eat, Israelis rampaging through Palestinian streets calling for their deaths, Israelis burning their villages, Israelis dancing in dead and displaced Palestinian women's underwear yet the pro Israel lot march for them. What does that tell you?

I posted the definition which is what was asked for.

That's interesting, but seems rather out of date. When were the data compiled? It mentions Muslims making up 0.5% of the UK population, whereas the 2021 Census gives this as 6% (15% in London), which by 2050 (assuming current trends continue) is projected to reach about 19%. This compares to ~0.4% of the UK population being Jewish, as of the 2021 Census.

https://islamchannel.tv/mcb-report-on-census-data-shows-progress-and-challenges-facing-british-muslims/

I'm not presenting these facts by way of complaint: I enjoy the presence of peaceful Muslim communities in our country. Nervousness of radical Islam is surely rational, though, given that it is acknowledged as the greastest security threat to the UK? Aren't you nervous of these elements too?

But that's not the point. I can't share links to Statistica because you need to register an account to view the data, but perhaps you can look it up yourself: although Muslims do unfortunately experience racism, antisemitic incidents in the UK are insanely disproportionate by comparison. My worry is that that marches achieve nothing useful for Palestinians, and simply feed into this terrifying rise in hate crimes against the small and increasingly vulnerable Jewish population of the UK.

Now where have I heard the phrase ‘re educate’ before? Interesting. 🤔

That hasn’t answered where people want them to go at all. Or do you want them to stay in a desolate war zone? Hamas don’t wear uniforms. They need to separate the ‘civilians’ so they can be made safe.

No, I do not think Egypt should take them and I don’t blame them. Some people have long memories.

Do you think the Egyptian economy with it's high public debt can absorb 2 million homeless refugees (which includes around 40,000 orphans) and sustain them.

Egypt currently has a homeless crisis, around 12 million people including 3 million children are homeless.

Egypt won’t open their border because of what happened in Lebanon. But Pro P don’t want them to leave either. Nor do they want them to go to a place of safety. And hamas won’t surrender. Make it make sense.

When is being moved to safety in a war zone, ethnic cleansing?

When it's forcible and not optional?

Who is going to take over the land left?

@smallglassbottle so you think Israelis are racist for being scared? This is the problem today. If you criticise a group (ie grooming gangs) you get called racist. Thanks for showing it applies here too.

When is being moved to safety in a war zone, ethnic cleansing?

Have all the Ukrainian refugees that came over here been ethnically cleansed? The Syrian refugees etc.

Why is land more important than children actually living as children to you?

Egypt is the only place for them to go unless you want them in Netanyahu’s ‘concentration camps’?

Gaza is flattened, it will take years to rebuild, and is likely full of unexploded mines, IEDs,etc, placed by Hamas and Hamas will still be there.

Where do you expect the children to live, be educated, and be safe? Or don’t you think they need to be?

Who’s talking about the West Bank?

I didn't make up any "shit" you have just repeated what I said in my post
You want Palestinians ethnically cleansed from their land and moved to a new place (where I don't know because Egypt will not absorb 2 million traumatized refugees, many orphans, many with long term medical needs) . Dress it up anyway that helps justify it but it is what it boils down to.

A two state solution is the only ethical solution.

And who will take over the land that remains in Gaza?
And what should happen to the Palestinians in the West Bank?

https://mcb.org.uk/resources/islamophobia/

It's racist to express these opinions. You may be referred to Prevent who will be happy to re educate you.

What do you call Islamophobia when the fear isn’t irrational?

Perhaps Gazan children could be sent to live with Palestinian families in the West Bank where they'll be safer. I think that's a possibility.

So what do you think should happen?

Why don’t you actually respond to the post you are responding to instead of making up shit up as you go along?

I absolutely support, Gazan children especially, being removed from a war zone to safety where they are not longer being used as pawns in Hamas’ long running game plan to spill as much Palestinian blood as possible.

Don’t you?

Gaza is practically flattened isn’t it? You want children to remain there, being murdered by the evil IDF, living open to the elements, to starve and die of thirst, with their parents already struggling to feed them because apparently Israel is killing them when they try to?

Medical facilities bombed, no schools, hiding from Israeli bombs in the rubble?

How could anybody be in favour of that!

Horrifying!

Israel has lost its way.