At long last the police are cracking down on hard marches

That's interesting and I do see the point you're making. From my perspective, I'm just wary of the marches because although a lot of people participating in them probably genuinely think they are demonstrating for "peace", it's such a nebulous thing to achieve in such complex circumstances that I doubt they could explain what they meant by it if you stopped to ask them, aside from not wanting their Insta feed to be flooded with images of dying babies every day.

On the other hand, some of the organisers do seem to have a definite agenda, given that the first demo was planned on 7 October for the following weekend.

Without pretending to have any sophisticated understanding of ME politics, I think it is a massive oversimplification to say that for Hamas, "This war is about land."

I hope you're having a laugh here!

💯 This blind obedience of law that many posters here are expressing was not so respectable after the Nuremberg trials

Honestly? yes of course, if someone did that to my DD i'd want them killed a 1000x over.
Justice or revenge is a very strong motivating force for many victims or their families.

But i would hope i would not want to extend that "justice" to everyone in their town/settlement where they came from.

The Israelis and Palestinians are going to have to learn live along side each other and a Palestinian state is probably the only way it can ever happen but we are decades away from that now, thanks to Oct 7th and the actions of Netanyahu.

@DwarfBeans Appear its coming from Starmer "Emergency Meeting on Gaza called for tomo" , married to a Jewish woman but of course, its not support for Hamas, its support for the Gazans who have been murdered in their 10s of 1000s.. & the starvation they are now suffering.

If Iran wanted to kill all Jews, why are there thousands of them, despite being offered a home in Israel, still living there, ?
Maybe you need to have a rethink. The problem that Iran, Hamas and Hezbollah have is primarily with the state of Israel and the land that it "occupies", not Jews Per se.

I don’t think it is a war about land. I think Hamas, hezbollah and Iran want all Jews eradicated. It’s part of their doctrine, no?

@TeenagersAngst
Yes you can choose to not draw the comparison between the incomparable.

It’s very unpleasant to inappropriately weaponise the Shoah to cloak recent events in hyperbole.

There is no reality where 100 murders, 30,000 sent to death camps, 1,500 synagogues burned down and 7,000 Jewish businesses destroyed in 1 night is on the same scale as 4 people spraying paint on 2 fighter jets on a military base

Unless you think that 30,100 Jewish lives are worth less than or the same as the cost to repaint a couple of fighter jets. This is the last I will say on this. It’s offensive what you are doing- weaponising the Shoah to minimise the Holocaust by comparison to much lesser criminal activity in which no one was physically hurt. It’s a form of Holocaust denial too by the way.

I am more disconcerted by the reaction to the peace marches than to the marches themselves. Peace marches are no threat. Critics seeing them as a threat and then polarising society into an us vs them where being Jewish is synonymous with being pro Israeli and pro war while being against war on Palestinians is framed as antisemitism is what concerns me.

The full range of opinions are in the Jewish community as much as anywhere else on this. No one is saying is unchristian to be marching for peace or Islamophobic to want the hostages released. There is only churn and debate in which we Jews are being told what we should think and that we should be afraid of people protesting what is objectively a brutal war.

This war is about land. Chatter making it about religion is the fertile ground on which antisemitism flourishes.

If you minimise the actions of a proscribed and anti-semitic terrorist organisation as criminal damage, you can't help but draw the comparison.

Then why did you compare? If you think it wasn’t necessary, why appropriate the memory of one night in which over 100 Jews were murdered a further 30,000 Jewish people sent to the death camps, 1,500 destroyed synagogues and 7,000 Jewish businesses fire bombed to try and paint me as someone who doesn’t care about my own Jewish community?

You know Kristallnacht was more than vandalism, you know it was also the start of a genocide, so why even compare PA spray painting two fighter jets, and other vandalism in which no one was hurt to Kristallnacht?

I don't think you need to compare anything to anything to decide if the acts of an organisation meet the threshold for being proscribed.

Maybe ask the Jewish businesses whose property was vandalised by PA how they feel?

I think that's a fair point. You say you're Jewish and I'm not, so I'd like to ask if you're at all disconcerted by the predominance of "pro-Palestine" rallies in the UK, given that the demos of 14 October were submitted for approval on 7 October as the Hamas/Gazan atrocities were unfolding? I feel the whole narrative has been skewed from the start to present an existential threat to the Jewish community - not just in Israel, but right here in the UK - as a kind of long-suppressed retaliation. I'm not trying to be arsey here, just genuinely curious to know how you feel about this.

You did say it was “mere criminal damage”
TeenagersAngst · 13/07/2025 13:20
So by that definition, acts of vandalism that happened during Kristallnacht can be described as mere criminal damage?

In response to one of my posts, me, not another PP.

I have not downplayed. I have the opinion that the government has abused their power to ban PA as a terrorist organisation and that the poster before me who said they are “like Hamas” was being hyperbolic.

Nothing PA has done or planned to do even comes close to the death and destruction of Hamas nor is it even remotely comparable to the state sanctioned Nazi mobs attacking hundreds of Jewish families on Kristallnacht. Did you know around 100 Jews were murdered then? And 30,000 Jews were rounded up and sent to the death camps? That 1,500 synagogues were burned to the ground? And over 7,000 Jewish businesses destroyed?

Why would you think that comparable to 4 activists sneaking onto a RAF base and spray painting 2 fighter jets…an act that harmed no one at all in any way.

The day we start valuing military weapons the same as human lives or more, is the day we lose our humanity.

I didn't say it was 'mere', I was responding to a PP who was downplaying the actions of Palestine Action.

You might want to look at what else they've been up to. It really isn't just two fighter jets.

Have you been on holiday?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpvjglwlyx9o

“Raza Husain KC, for Ms Ammori, told Mr Justice Chamberlain on Monday that the home secretary's ban was unlawful and she should be allowed to challenge it.
"The proscription of Palestine Action is repugnant to the tradition of the common law and contrary to the European Convention on Human Rights," he said.
"The decision is so extreme as to render the UK an international outlier. The decision to proscribe Palestine Action had the hallmarks of an authoritarian and blatant abuse of power."
Ms Ammori's lawyers said the ban was having a "chilling effect" on legitimate protest.
Many of the people arrested since the ban had been holding signs reading: "I oppose genocide, I support Palestine Action".
The court was told that one man in Leeds had been detained under terrorism powers for holding up a copy of an item in the satirical magazine Private Eye which had lampooned the ban.
In another case, a 77-year-old woman from Keighley, West Yorkshire, was held over a placard that read: "I support NON-VIOLENT PALESTINE ACTION to oppose VIOLENCE AND GENOCIDE."
Blinne Ní Ghrálaigh KC, also for Ms Ammori, added: "Dozens and dozens of people have been arrested for protesting, seated and mostly silent protest. Your task is to decide whether these are proportionate restrictions on free speech."
The court heard that the government's internal assessment of Palestine Action, drawn up by the secret Joint Terrorism Analysis Centre inside MI5, had concluded that the majority of its activity did not cross the legal threshold for a ban.”

There is nothing “mere” about criminal damage and your direct comparison of civilian protesters spray painting a grand total of two (2) state owned fighter jets to 1930s state sponsored mobs terrorising civilian Jewish families in their homes and businesses during the lead up to the Holocaust is ill considered.

Not the case. Dozens have been arrested while doing silent sitting protests.

I am Jewish and my safely tucked up in bed comment was in reference to the RAF military personnel who were not anywhere near the fighter jets whilst the they were being spray painted. Spray painting is also not at all comparable to arson or bombs - which are things that could cause injury or death.

Please note I included evidence of conspiracy to commit a terrorist crime as a valid reason for prosecution and proscription of organisations.

Information released by Israel about its own suffering tends to be discreet, and you are right that you have to actively search for it. You can't just passively consume social media expecting anything traumatic to be rammed down your throat. That's why I think it's possible that Lipstick really had no clue about what actually happened on 7 October, let alone why it matters.

I know and sometimes I'm praying (figuratively speaking) that the people who do still contribute don't get driven away by it too.

I'm sure some of it is tactical. The same as the personal attacks that drive people away too because it's stressful debating with people who feel they can be as nasty as they want to try & score a point.

@Beachtastic @Twiglets1 completely agree. We have lost many thoughtful and knowledgeable contributors over the last year or so, partly for this reason, I'm sure.

This is how I feel and why I would never want to share information that is too graphic or distressing because you never know who you will trigger or deeply upset. I myself was devastated by something a pro Pal poster wrote with no trigger warning, which would be obligatory on certain other boards.

I hate the fact that some seem to relish using the term concentration camp. They know it could be particularly upsetting to some fellow members of the MN community & they know why - yet they use it regardless and sometimes with a "point scoring" mentality that they will use the term because no one can stop them.

It's like grief tourism the way some like to focus on the most graphic details they can find of people suffering.

I am also aware that not everyone on MN is wholly unrelated to the victims of 7 October and I'd like to try to avoid violating their grief by raking over deeply distressing information.

I am not Jewish. I feel like I have had to choose to seek out information regarding October 7th as it was not reported in the way it deserved. Initially I had the impression it was a little bit of fighting by ‘freedom fighters’ as push back. That’s how I feel it was portrayed.

I’ve spent hours and hours discovering the truth. And it is certainly different to my initial impression from the media. Where is the outcry for these victims? For the hostages? Why does it feel like the whole world has drank the cool aid? People are being called racist and batting around words like ‘genocide’ to shut people up. We’ve seen this over and over again with other issues such as gender ideology.

Perhaps it’s too late now. All these uni kids will be running the world soon.