Please or to access all these features

Conflict in the Middle East

Sexual violence as a weapon of war during October 7 massacre

137 replies

Twiglets1 · 08/07/2025 10:38

A new report providing the first legal framework for prosecuting Hamas terrorists for the use of sexual violence as a weapon of war during the October 7, 2023, massacre is being presented by the Dinah Project to First Lady Michal Herzog at the President’s Residence in Jerusalem.

The report confirms that Hamas systematically used rape and sexual violence as tools of war during the October 7 massacres and is the first to present a legal roadmap for identifying and pursuing justice for the use of sexual violence as a weapon of warfare, which constitutes a crime against humanity.

The gathering of primarily women notably includes former hostage Ilana Gritzewsky, who has publicly spoken about being sexually assaulted by her captors in Gaza.

“This report tells the truth as it is — shocking, painful, but necessary. On behalf of all those who were harmed, we are committed to continuing the fight until their cries are heard everywhere and justice is done,” says First Lady Michal Herzog.

“We carry here a universal message: that sexual violence cannot be accepted as a tool of war,” she says, drawing attention to the plight of the remaining 50 hostages, including Inbar Hayman, the single female captive who is believed to be dead.

www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/report-provides-legal-framework-to-prosecute-sexual-violence-during-oct-7-hamas-massacre/

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
ForgesOfEmpires · 08/07/2025 22:25

girljulian · 08/07/2025 22:06

This is absolute crap, but clearly we’ll never agree.

Oh dear.

Well, here's Article 8 of the Jerusalem Declaration which defines antisemitism:

“Requiring people, because they are Jewish, publicly to condemn Israel or Zionism (for example, at a political meeting).”

I’m sure it is indeed “absolute crap” and the people yelling at Jews to denounce Israel or be held responsible for its actions will be devastated to learn they’re literally embodying the antisemitism this declaration defines.

ForgesOfEmpires · 08/07/2025 22:17

Jumpupjumphigh · 08/07/2025 21:09

Why should Arab Palestinians have taken "what was offered" when it involved carving up their land and forcing them out of most of it to make a state for people from Europe?

Interpret it how you will, but the idea that this started in 2023 is absurd.

Everyone's state got carved up!

Since 1920, the entire region has been redrawn, broken up, and reshaped - often by colonial powers, dictatorships, or wars. Just a few examples:

  • Syria and Lebanon were carved out of the Ottoman Empire by France.
  • Iraq was stitched together by the British from three Ottoman provinces. After years of war, the Sunni and Shia divide remains explosive, and millions were displaced by the ISIS conflict.
  • Jordan was created by the British in the 1920s as “Transjordan” and handed to a Hashemite monarch.
  • Kuwait was split from Iraq by the British, and Iraq invaded in 1990 partly over this dispute.
  • Turkey and Greece exchanged over 1.5 million people forcibly in 1923.
  • Kurds, despite being a major ethnic group, were never given a state—they were divided between Turkey, Iraq, Syria, and Iran. They’ve faced persecution and displacement in all of them.
  • Armenians were massacred and displaced during the Armenian Genocide.
  • The creation of modern Saudi Arabia involved war, tribal expulsions, and the forced assimilation of different regions.

Millions across the region have been displaced, borders redrawn, and entire peoples scattered. It's tragic - but it’s not unique to Israel or the Palestinians.

The difference is, in most of these cases, people moved on, rebuilt, or were absorbed into neighbouring countries. But when it comes to Israel and Palestine, the region - and the world - has kept this conflict frozen in time, generation after generation, while rejecting every compromise that might have led to peace.

It’s not that it’s the only injustice - it’s just the one that never ends.

And just to correct you on a couple of quite key errors in your short post.

By the early 1950s, over 50% of Jews in Israel were from the Middle East, North Africa, or Asia - not Europe. These were Mizrahi and Sephardi Jews, many of whom were forcibly expelled or fled antisemitic violence from countries like Iraq, Yemen, Egypt, Libya, Morocco, Syria, and Iran.

They were not "forced out of most of it", the first offer to them gave them 80% of the land the remaining 20% being areas where no Arabs lived (they said no) and when the second offer came, it was 50/50.

By 1947, only about 6–8% of the land in Mandatory Palestine was privately owned by Arabs (according to British land records). Jews owned around 7% of the land. The rest - over 80% - was public or uncultivated land, owned by the British Mandate authorities (previously Ottoman state land) so really one empire changed to another.

And saying they were "forced out" is very murky.

In many areas, Arab civilians were explicitly told by Jewish and later Israeli leaders to stay. David Ben-Gurion, Israel’s first Prime Minister, made radio announcements urging Arab residents to remain in place and promised equal rights to those who did. I have seen copies of speeches and articles saying the same thing. His message was clear: those who stayed would be full citizens of the new state and that promise was kept.

In cities like Haifa, Jewish leaders actively begged Arabs to stay and even worked to reassure them during the chaos. However, it was Arab leaders themselves - not the Jews - who told the population to evacuate, expecting to return quickly after what they believed would be a decisive Arab military victory.

There are clear examples of Arab calls to evacuate. In April 1948, the Arab Higher Committee and several Arab military commanders ordered evacuations from various cities. These orders were given to avoid civilian casualties and to clear the way for attacking Arab armies.

Iraqi and Syrian officers operating in Palestine at the time also encouraged the local Arab population to leave, promising that they would return once Israel was defeated.

This isn’t to say that no Arabs were expelled -in some active combat zones, such as Lydda and Ramle, there were forced removals carried out by Israeli forces. But these were military decisions during wartime, not part of a systematic plan to ethnically cleanse the land.

In most areas, Arabs left either voluntarily or under pressure from their own leadership, anticipating a quick return after the expected Arab victory.

All of this is documented, but rather than looking at the full picture people focus on the parts that were forcibly kicked out. I suppose people just ignore all the information which doesn't fit their chosen narrative.

Was it fair on everyone? Of course not. Nor was it fair the 11 times the Jews of Israel were colonised, nor was it fair on every Jewish person who had to leave Judea or Samaria or anywhere else in the region. It was crap, but the bottomline is that it was a pretty fair request for Jews to have autonomy in a tiny, tiny slither of what was their homeland before it was taken.

I really can't grasp why people begrudge them that. The entire width of Israel is about 9 to 100 miles wide depending on where you go. Do you seriously believe people should be sending their kids to war over living at most about 100 miles away from where their grandparents might have lived?

I live 4000 miles from where my Grandparents lived! This is not a reasonable way to live life!

Anonimummy · 08/07/2025 22:11

TakeMe2Insanity · 08/07/2025 21:53

And yet you aren’t capable of saying sexual violence to any man/woman/child in a conflict zone regardless of background is wrong?

Still not able to read my last paragraph - from
my post of 20:49:

I would expect any sexual violence carried out by the IDF was treated as a crime in the same way any sexual violence is and from remembering past new stories, it is.

Whatsinanamehey · 08/07/2025 22:08

ForgesOfEmpires · 08/07/2025 21:58

What a twisted and backwards paragraph.

Let’s be clear: it’s antisemitic to blame Jews for the actions of Israel - yes. But suggesting that Jews must publicly disown or condemn Israel in order to earn protection from antisemitism is really quite a vile suggestion!

That’s not how bigotry works. If someone’s hatred of Jews increases because people support Israel’s right to defend itself against a terror group like Hamas, then the problem isn’t Israel - it’s the antisemite.

And for clarity: People defend Israel not because they think it’s perfect, but because it’s fighting an enemy that murders civilians, uses human shields, rapes women, burns babies alive, and celebrates it. People believe -rightly - that Israel, like any other nation, has a right to stop that, and to get its hostages back.

Jews don’t need to side with genocidal terrorists to be spared hatred. And anyone suggesting they should is exposing exactly the kind of thinking that fuels antisemitism - not fights it.

All of your posts ignore (purposefully? Subconsciously? )all of the atrocities that the IDF and the state of Israel and the radical settlers have and continue to inflict on the Palestinians.

girljulian · 08/07/2025 22:06

ForgesOfEmpires · 08/07/2025 21:58

What a twisted and backwards paragraph.

Let’s be clear: it’s antisemitic to blame Jews for the actions of Israel - yes. But suggesting that Jews must publicly disown or condemn Israel in order to earn protection from antisemitism is really quite a vile suggestion!

That’s not how bigotry works. If someone’s hatred of Jews increases because people support Israel’s right to defend itself against a terror group like Hamas, then the problem isn’t Israel - it’s the antisemite.

And for clarity: People defend Israel not because they think it’s perfect, but because it’s fighting an enemy that murders civilians, uses human shields, rapes women, burns babies alive, and celebrates it. People believe -rightly - that Israel, like any other nation, has a right to stop that, and to get its hostages back.

Jews don’t need to side with genocidal terrorists to be spared hatred. And anyone suggesting they should is exposing exactly the kind of thinking that fuels antisemitism - not fights it.

This is absolute crap, but clearly we’ll never agree.

SisforSusanna · 08/07/2025 22:05

ForgesOfEmpires · 08/07/2025 22:02

Indeed it has. What's unusual is that this is the first time I have seen complete global denial that it happened. Even from feminist voices.

Where do you see the global denial?

SisforSusanna · 08/07/2025 22:04

stonecutter · 08/07/2025 21:57

Did they not accept what was offered?

They have been land grabbing ever since.

ForgesOfEmpires · 08/07/2025 22:02

Messycoo · 08/07/2025 21:00

Sexual violence has always been a weapon of war .

Indeed it has. What's unusual is that this is the first time I have seen complete global denial that it happened. Even from feminist voices.

ForgesOfEmpires · 08/07/2025 21:58

girljulian · 08/07/2025 20:17

“What is also antisemitic is holding Jews around the world collectively responsible for the actions of Israel - and that happens every day, in attacks, abuse, vandalism, and exclusion. A problem which is escalated vastly by demonisation of things naturally associated with Jews, such as Israel.”

exactly!!! This is the whole point I am making but you seem to have turned it into a confused oxymoron. It’s antisemitic to hold Jews responsible for the actions of Israel. So why the hell are people continuing to defend Israel’s atrocities when all it’s doing is turning people against Jews?

Edited

What a twisted and backwards paragraph.

Let’s be clear: it’s antisemitic to blame Jews for the actions of Israel - yes. But suggesting that Jews must publicly disown or condemn Israel in order to earn protection from antisemitism is really quite a vile suggestion!

That’s not how bigotry works. If someone’s hatred of Jews increases because people support Israel’s right to defend itself against a terror group like Hamas, then the problem isn’t Israel - it’s the antisemite.

And for clarity: People defend Israel not because they think it’s perfect, but because it’s fighting an enemy that murders civilians, uses human shields, rapes women, burns babies alive, and celebrates it. People believe -rightly - that Israel, like any other nation, has a right to stop that, and to get its hostages back.

Jews don’t need to side with genocidal terrorists to be spared hatred. And anyone suggesting they should is exposing exactly the kind of thinking that fuels antisemitism - not fights it.

stonecutter · 08/07/2025 21:57

SisforSusanna · 08/07/2025 21:48

😂at Israel being gracious about the land.

Did they not accept what was offered?

TakeMe2Insanity · 08/07/2025 21:53

Anonimummy · 08/07/2025 21:19

Are you not capable of reading a simple paragraph? See the last one of my previous post.

To bring up a historical rape from a side you support, which the perpetrator was punished for at the time, on a thread about present day sexual atrocities against scores of women from a side you don’t, including gang rape and torture, rather looks like you were trying to intimate ‘but they did that 76 years ago’ to me.

Which is desperate and despicable. None of those people are alive today so how is it relevant?

What point were you trying to make if it wasn’t that?

And yet you aren’t capable of saying sexual violence to any man/woman/child in a conflict zone regardless of background is wrong?

ForgesOfEmpires · 08/07/2025 21:51

SisforSusanna · 08/07/2025 19:38

Innocent Palestinians have been butchered in their homes or walking down the street minding their own business for decades by IDF including children shot playing in their garden.

No one denies that innocent Palestinians - including children - have tragically died in this conflict, and yes, sometimes in horrifying ways. Conflict isn't safe. War and terrorism are brutal, and people do die. The conflict has been ongoing for decades.

There are good Israelis and horrible Israelis and even evil Israelis. The same applies to British, Dutch, Chinese, Mexican..everyone. But the IDF and the state of Israel do not have a policy of trying to murder Palestinian civilians or children.

Israel is a democratic country with an independent judiciary, free press, and military investigations. When civilians are killed unjustly, there are protests, media scrutiny, and in some cases, soldiers have been jailed. As their should be.

By comparison, Hamas does target civilians including children -as policy, proudly and publicly. They have no free press, no judiciary accountability, and when they kill civilians they celebrate it. They have big parties in the street and everyone cheers over the corpse. No one is tried and jailed, they get paid a salary!

Claiming the IDF has spent “decades butchering people walking down the street or playing in their garden” deliberately, as a matter of policy, is just a nonsense.

Go to the OCHA and test your own theory. There's a list of every casualty and their age, status and cause of death listed since 2008.

What you'll find it that Hamas and the civilian Gazans who invaded Israel on 7 October 2023 killed more people in six hours, than Israelis forces had killed in the previous NINE YEARS.

Thing about that...

This army of 600k with every weapon in the world and ongoing conflict where in excess of 80 terror attacks were inflicted on them as well as more than 18,000 rockets fired at their civilian population and they killed less civilians in all that time as Hamas and Gazans did with a few guns, a couple of knives and their bare hands on 7 October 2023.

Israel doesn’t target civilians on purpose.

The IDF has checks and balances and accountability when they do something wrong and people are punished and even jailed.

Soldiers have been prosecuted for manslaughter, abuse, and unlawful killing. For example, Elor Azaria was convicted of manslaughter for shooting a wounded attacker, and in 2025, an IDF officer was dismissed after an airstrike killed aid workers in Gaza. Investigations happen - even if people think they don’t go far enough. That’s what sets a democracy apart from a terror group.

SisforSusanna · 08/07/2025 21:48

😂at Israel being gracious about the land.

Madcatdudette · 08/07/2025 21:36

Jumpupjumphigh · 08/07/2025 21:09

Why should Arab Palestinians have taken "what was offered" when it involved carving up their land and forcing them out of most of it to make a state for people from Europe?

Interpret it how you will, but the idea that this started in 2023 is absurd.

Why shouldn’t they?
Israel were gracious enough to accept what was offered.

Anonimummy · 08/07/2025 21:31

Jumpupjumphigh · 08/07/2025 21:09

Why should Arab Palestinians have taken "what was offered" when it involved carving up their land and forcing them out of most of it to make a state for people from Europe?

Interpret it how you will, but the idea that this started in 2023 is absurd.

Oh please! The Palestinians had no sovereignty over the land. Most of them were economic migrants from surrounding Arab countries, they had /have no more rights over ALL the land than the Jewish people.

Most fled when the Arab armies told them to so they could annihilate the tiny, brand new Jewish state without them in the way but the ‘great catastrophe’ happened and they failed.

There were no demands for their own State from 1948 to 1967 under Egypt and Jordan. Only when Israel once again defeated Arab armies and was lumbered with them. The Palestinians refused to declare their own state again and again.

People are common displaced in war, land is carved up. New states emerge.

What were Iraq. Syria, Lebanon and Jordan before 1919?

girljulian · 08/07/2025 21:22

Anonimummy · 08/07/2025 21:19

Are you not capable of reading a simple paragraph? See the last one of my previous post.

To bring up a historical rape from a side you support, which the perpetrator was punished for at the time, on a thread about present day sexual atrocities against scores of women from a side you don’t, including gang rape and torture, rather looks like you were trying to intimate ‘but they did that 76 years ago’ to me.

Which is desperate and despicable. None of those people are alive today so how is it relevant?

What point were you trying to make if it wasn’t that?

“A side”??? It’s not football!

Anonimummy · 08/07/2025 21:19

TakeMe2Insanity · 08/07/2025 20:52

How do you jump from me saying no sexual violence is justified to fabricating the concept that I am saying it was ok? Fiction.

Again, I’m saying it wasn’t ok then as it wasn’t ok in 2023, I’m not getting that from you. So why is it ok for sexual violence to handed out to Palestinians?

Are you not capable of reading a simple paragraph? See the last one of my previous post.

To bring up a historical rape from a side you support, which the perpetrator was punished for at the time, on a thread about present day sexual atrocities against scores of women from a side you don’t, including gang rape and torture, rather looks like you were trying to intimate ‘but they did that 76 years ago’ to me.

Which is desperate and despicable. None of those people are alive today so how is it relevant?

What point were you trying to make if it wasn’t that?

TakeMe2Insanity · 08/07/2025 21:10

Messycoo · 08/07/2025 21:00

Sexual violence has always been a weapon of war .

That doesn’t make it right!

War is inherently disgusting. It takes people to places they don’t want to go to but in this age passing out SA because the person was the other side is vile and abhorrent.

Jumpupjumphigh · 08/07/2025 21:09

Madcatdudette · 08/07/2025 15:52

Oh yes, let’s all fuck off back to 1948 when the Arabs refused to take what was offered but Israel did.
Then the Arabs decided to kill Jews as a protest 🙄

Why should Arab Palestinians have taken "what was offered" when it involved carving up their land and forcing them out of most of it to make a state for people from Europe?

Interpret it how you will, but the idea that this started in 2023 is absurd.

Messycoo · 08/07/2025 21:00

Sexual violence has always been a weapon of war .

girljulian · 08/07/2025 20:58

Sskka · 08/07/2025 20:52

“contrasted to what’s happened in Gaza since, it looks like nothing”

Good grief. Can’t you see what you have become? Do you not care?

Do you not care? Clearly not.

TakeMe2Insanity · 08/07/2025 20:52

Anonimummy · 08/07/2025 20:49

How desperate can you be to think a crime that happened 76 years ago, and the perpetrators punished for it, has any relevance to atrocities carried out less than two years ago!

Are you saying the Palestinians were justified in gangly raping, sexually torturing and murdering Israeli women because a Palestinian woman was raped and murdered 76 years ago?

I would expect any sexual violence carried out by the IDF was treated as a crime in the same way any sexual violence is and from remembering past new stories, it is.

How do you jump from me saying no sexual violence is justified to fabricating the concept that I am saying it was ok? Fiction.

Again, I’m saying it wasn’t ok then as it wasn’t ok in 2023, I’m not getting that from you. So why is it ok for sexual violence to handed out to Palestinians?

Sskka · 08/07/2025 20:52

“contrasted to what’s happened in Gaza since, it looks like nothing”

Good grief. Can’t you see what you have become? Do you not care?

Anonimummy · 08/07/2025 20:49

TakeMe2Insanity · 08/07/2025 20:39

This is a thread about sexual violence perpetrated by one side to another. As stated up thread sexual violence should not be carried out however while making out only Israeli’s suffered. I don’t see any acceptance from you that Palestinians have suffered sexual violence against them, this states it happened right from the creation of Israel. Or are you saying the IDF have never carried out sexual violence??

How desperate can you be to think a crime that happened 76 years ago, and the perpetrators punished for it, has any relevance to atrocities carried out less than two years ago!

Are you saying the Palestinians were justified in gangly raping, sexually torturing and murdering Israeli women because a Palestinian woman was raped and murdered 76 years ago?

I would expect any sexual violence carried out by the IDF was treated as a crime in the same way any sexual violence is and from remembering past new stories, it is.

MixedMetals · 08/07/2025 20:47

User37482 · 08/07/2025 20:22

I think people in the west are particularly sensitive to it in the UK because of things like grooming gangs and repeated stories in the newspapers of sexual harassment and violence by refugees from predominantly muslim countries.

It pains me to point this out, I know many wonderful muslim people. But I do think this is where the sensitivity comes from. People don’t want it to become a feature of how muslims are seen. Unfortunately sexual violence is common in all war zones. The Russians have been brutal towards Ukrainian women and children.

Also it’s very hard to defend rape vs murder in a weird way. Murder can be painted as “resistance” (honestly I watched the video of that poor Thai man hacked to death and I don’t understand the thinking of people who justify 7th October with the whole “history didn’t start here”). Rape is always about degradation. I think also the fashion nowadays is to see rape purely in terms of power, I don’t believe that, some men are aroused by sexual violence. They weren’t all Hamas either, Palestinian civilians joined in.

No-one apart from the Russians would pretend that rape hasn’t happened in Ukraine, I don’t see rape denial about Syria or Sudan. This is very unique to Israeli women.

No-one apart from the Russians would pretend that rape hasn’t happened in Ukraine, I don’t see rape denial about Syria or Sudan. This is very unique to Israeli women.

Unfortunately it really isn't. Multiple women(presumably) on mumsnet have denied sexual violence has happened by Israelis to Palestinians. A whole report by the UN was written off as 'propaganda'. Perhaps unique to this conflict would be more accurate.

Swipe left for the next trending thread