Israels plan for Gazas future

Yes if we could just stick to discussing the plan. Lots of other threads are available to discuss how many people have died or whether you think the death is worth it or western support for the Palestinians.

You don’t have to sleepwalk behind Netanyahu and the most extreme elements of his government into a conversation about when an internment camp becomes a death camp.

It seems no one wants to discuss the Katz plan @MixedMetals . I’ll read that to mean it’s because it’s so obvious it’s abhorrent and there is in fact. No way to justify it.

But you do acknowledge that the 55,000 dead includes the Hamas terrorists which reputable sources say are approx half the casualties?
So you’d be much more believable saying 28,000 dead civilians, because at the moment no one can take you seriously.

I remember how people in the middle east were extremely prone to conspiracy theory beliefs. It used to be really odd because you would be talking to someone who is clearly very intelligent, well informed and nuanced but mention Israel and the batshittery starts. It’s fascinating from a psychological perspective because theres a build up of hysteria and increasingly outlandish claims, it’s almost religious in it’s expression, like those American Christians who like to start speaking in tongues. I think people get a dopamine hit from it.

Jesus people are supporting groups that attack the Uk’s military assets, police officers, trash Jewish businesses, Jewsish schools have security, if this is about Israel why are British Jews scared. it’s not much of a jump to think it will get worse. You have people calling for death to entire groups of people in public. This is what extremism looks like.

Interestingly an organised group in Belgium attacked a jeep manufacturer. They had been told these were destined for Israel but actually they were going to Ukraine. Russia has paid people in the UK to attack sites connected with Ukrainian arms in the UK. I remember listening to a podcaster suggest that increasingly you’ll just see groups paid to contract out terrorism. I wonder how many of these idiots actually know who’s paying for their “work”. Wouldn’t surprise me at all if funds are traced back to Russia and Iran.

Thanks guys, honestly I don't think I was bullied or feel bullied, I just don't have any patience for things like Holocaust reduction and imaginary death camps. When people start down those roads and I would just as soon not spend my time engaging it :D

@ForgesOfEmpires

honestly one of the most patient, well informed and clear thinking contributors on this topic. Keep posting, I find what you say interesting.

@MixedMetals

@I think people have heard the terrorist supporter thing before. It's boring.

Do you think a camp on the ruins of Rafah is a good idea? Do you think it's humane? Do you think it stands a chance of bringing meaningful peace to both Israelis and Palestinians? Do you think Israelis will stand up and say not in my name? There are so many things you can say on the topic that aren't throwing out tired insults. It's pathetic that every single thread descends into this nonsense."

You may view the real potential for supporting terrorism in the West as boring or tiresome or pathetic or an insult- but there is actual historical precedent from the 1970s and 1980s of both support and active involvement for Palestinian terrorism by left wing Westerners such the Red Army Faction and the Red Brigade.

Well said 🙏

and still they seek to justify. Shocking

@ForgesOfEmpires
@Insanityisnotastrategy

"This board of mumsnet can be very frustrating but I just want to say I find every one of your posts genuinely valuable to read, and it's clear you really know what you're talking about.

I'm not in support of a large proportion of what Israel has done over the last two years and I feel there are some real mental gymnastics from posters on both 'sides', but I've really gained a lot from your informed contributions"

I fully agree with @Insanityisnotastrategy and it's sad that the despite the rational, well informed and incredibly well written posts of @ForgesOfEmpires she feels that she has been shouted down and bullied off this thread.

This board of mumsnet can be very frustrating but I just want to say I find every one of your posts genuinely valuable to read, and it's clear you really know what you're talking about.

I'm not in support of a large proportion of what Israel has done over the last two years and I feel there are some real mental gymnastics from posters on both 'sides', but I've really gained a lot from your informed contributions.

@DrPrunesqualer
@Anonimummy

"Anonimummy
Sorry didn’t get any further than you think Hamas give a flying fuck about Gazan citizens.

You support Hamas then?"

"These attacks are just so funny 🤣🤣🤣. Do you think we are new to these games. 😂. I have nothing to say to those who support the horrors being committed by the Israeli Government. It’s a waste of time and leaves a disgusting taste"

Hamas is effectively a cult brainwashing people to support the eradication of Israel and its population.

The entrenched and strong emotional views expressed by a minority on this thread in support of the Palestinian cause are eerily reminiscent of the support from Western liberals for the Palestinian terrorist attacks of the 1970s and 1980s.

Indeed there is already support for Palestine Action who hospitalised a female police officer in an attack with a sledgehammer.

I wonder how long it will be where there is support and potentially active involvement for more deadly terrorist attacks in the West in the name of Palestine.

How did we go from the horror of an internment camp (there we go, calm your knickers) to this means support for Hamas? What in all that is inhumane is this ridiculous dichotomy?

Just be honest. You don't like Palestinians. You would prefer that they walk away from their own land so that white settlers can take over. Great. Glad we've cleared that up.

That’s just not true. It’s what you tell yourself so that you can remain loyal to genocide.
Where is your evidence? Is it Netenyahu’s word?

Over 17,000 children have been killed. 18,000 orphaned. 10 kids lose a limb every day. Over 1000 of healthcare workers on the job. You saw what they did with those poor ambulance men. It’s atrocious and you accept these lies to make it make sense.

@DrPrunesqualer ”Do you think the55,000 people in Gaza killed by the IDF is enough or too much?”

More than half were terrorists.

These attacks are just so funny 🤣🤣🤣. Do you think we are new to these games. 😂. I have nothing to say to those who support the horrors being committed by the Israeli Government. It’s a waste of time and leaves a disgusting taste

Sorry didn’t get any further than you think Hamas give a flying fuck about Gazan citizens.

You support Hamas then?

Agree. These posts are an attempt to shame and deflect away from the horrors that the Israeli Government are committing every day. And so @Anonimummy what do you think about the hundreds killed trying to get aid. Do you think the55,000 people in Gaza killed by the IDF is enough or too much? Do you believe it’s fine to kill more than 200 journalists. Is it OK to bomb ambulances and kids hiding in cars. What about leaving babies in incubators to starve to death…..is that ‘just war’. Is that justified. I think you’ll find the actions of the IDF are sick ( and it’s no wonder so many are coming out and speaking of the war crimes they have been told to commit ) and tbh I really don’t care what you think but I do hope you reflect. That’s deflecting and for those who can be bothered on here there’s plenty of back up for those who support the Palestinians

Yes I do. I also believe as would anyone with any empathy that Palestinians have a right to live in their country in peace. They should not have to live in some sort of ghetto ??? Prison??? Under Israeli guard. Why should they. Netanyahu and his IDF snippers and far right followers need to leave people to live their own lives. That includes the settler bullies. They disgust me, their actions disgust most of the world watching. Anyone who thinks that locking an entire population up is ‘humanitarian’ has been brainwashed and completely lost all grip on reality. Reading between the lines is an art but not exactly a difficult one because Netanyahu and all of his followers aren’t exactly hiding their hate. this is ethnic cleansing. We see it. We are not blind. I have nothing to say to those who defend it because we need to learn from history.

@Anonimummy why are you asking people on this thread to answer for Hamas?
You will find they condemn their actions.
The scale of that terror now wholly dwarfed in comparison to what Israel have done and continue to do to Gaza and West Bank inhabitants.

The issue is not condemning blatant violence and genocide committed now by Israel. It’s atrocious. Why would anyone support this?
Do you really think Israel will be the Zion it seeks to be after this hurt was committed to gain it? What God would want that?

Israel have set the bar so low for now for any international consensus war criminality. My disgust is renewed on a daily basis for Netenyahu and his loyal supporters.