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Conflict in the Middle East

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Israels plan for Gazas future

958 replies

MixedMetals · 07/07/2025 22:40

Defense Minister Israel Katz said Monday that he has instructed the IDF to prepare a plan to establish a "humanitarian city" on the ruins of Rafah, which would eventually house the entire population of the Gaza Strip.

According to Katz, the plan involves moving 600,000 Palestinians, primarily from the al-Muwasi area, into the new zone after security screening. Once inside, residents would not be allowed to leave, the defense minister said.

Katz added that, if conditions permit, construction of the "city" would begin during the 60-day Israel-Hamas cease-fire currently under negotiation.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-07-07/ty-article/.premium/defense-minister-israel-to-concentrate-all-gaza-population-in-rafah-humanitarian-zone/00000197-e56a-d1ad-ab97-e5ef764e0000

Defense minister: Israel to concentrate all Gaza population in Rafah 'humanitarian' zone

***

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-07-07/ty-article/.premium/defense-minister-israel-to-concentrate-all-gaza-population-in-rafah-humanitarian-zone/00000197-e56a-d1ad-ab97-e5ef764e0000

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Anonimummy · 09/07/2025 10:37

ForgesOfEmpires · 09/07/2025 10:24

You're repeating a narrative that oversimplifies history and lets Hamas off the hook for deliberate choices. Let's take this point by point:

Yes, Israel captured Gaza in 1967 - from Egypt—in a defensive war started checks notes Egypt. Egypt had occupied Gaza for almost 20 years at that time, and by the way had denied Gazans citizenship, free movement or basically any rights, they were treated really poorly actually by Egypt and keep in mind the context here that Egypt were on their side of the conflict!

Then Nasser ordered UN peacekeepers out of the Sinai Peninsula, which had been a buffer since the 1956 Suez Crisis and closed the Straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping, and Arab forces from Egypt, Syria, Jordan, and Iraq massed on Israel’s borders. If that isn't clear enough, Nasser publicly declared intentions to destroy Israel- “Our basic objective will be the destruction of Israel,” he said on May 27, 1967.

Really think that over for a minute and ask what YOUR country would do?

What Israel did was Israel launched a pre-emptive strike against Egypt's air force, destroying it on the ground. Jordan and Syria then attacked Israel, and Israel responded. Israel won that war -decisively and in just six days, during which they took control of Gaza and the Sinai Peninsula, which given what I just described is the least of what any country would do in their own defence!

A key point here is that once they did take control of the Sinai Peninsula they did not reciprocate and use it to attack Egypt - they actually just used it as a buffer zone and then handed it back in exchange for peace. So keep in mind every shred of evidence here shows Israel was acting purely in it's own defence with no aggression and their behavior. Israel is one of very few countries in history to do so: hand back land won in a defensive war in exchange for peace. It's rare because most countries keep land they’ve conquered in war, especially when the war was started by the other side.

Gaza at that time had been under Egyptian occupation with severe oppression for decades. It had no government or organised society! But what Israel did do during this "occupation" that they did not choose was allowed Gazans freedom of movement for the first time - they were allowed to visit Israel, schools were build, hospitals, UNRWA were invited in to develop infrastructure for the Gazan people and tens of thousands of Gazans were given jobs in Israel where wages were 5 - 10 times higher.

Under Egyptian control Gaza was neglected, isolated, and impoverished. After Israel took over roads, water systems, electricity, and hospitals were expanded and upgraded.The first modern hospitals, sewage systems, and reliable electricity came under Israeli civil administration.Trade and agriculture increased due to access to Israeli markets and Israeli investment. By the 1980s, Gaza's economy was growing, and unemployment was relatively low. Israel built schools and improved access to education. Infant mortality rates dropped and life expectancy increased - according to World Bank and UN figures at the time.

What Israel is criticised for was Israeli settlements in Gaza which were established after the war. By the early 2000s, there were 21 settlements in Gaza, home to about 9k Israelis, mainly concentrated in an area calong the southern coast. Though they occupied about 20% of the land, much of it was uninhabited sand dunes or farmland. However, the settlements required large military buffer zones and checkpoints because Gazans unfortunately did kill Jews, which inflamed tensions and created friction with the local Palestinian population.

Now you can look at this however you want to. From the Palestinian perspective, they represented land theft and occupation, especially as Gaza's 1.5 million Palestinians faced overcrowding and poverty. From the Israeli side, the settlements were viewed by some as a legitimate return to ancestral land or a necessary security buffer.

The goal was always stated, which was sufficient stability to be created in Gaza for it to safely govern itself and live as a peaceful neighbour to Israel in which Jews could freely live, as they did in Israel, but instead of that happening the first intifada happened.

Terrorism, extremism, and rejection of peace efforts led to closures, security measures, and decline. That increased security measures and began to reduce the freedoms Gazans had previously had. The Intifada led to the Oslo Accords and Gaza underwent significant changes. The Palestinian Authority was established and given civil and internal security control over most of Gaza, marking the first time Palestinians had self-rule in the territory. Israel partially withdrew its military from urban areas but retained control over borders, airspace, and Jewish settlements. but progress..

Then Hamas came on the scene somewhere in here, absolutely fuming that a two-state solution was being discussed and negotiated and demanded instead that Israel be annihilated and they have it all.

Israel then agreed to completely withdraw from Gaza in 2005. I have read the full withdrawal agreement and it was very fair and was done entirely in the hope that Gazans would self govern and make peace. They removed everything, every soldier and every settlement. Not one Israeli remained and Gazans were given a shot at self-governance fully. Movement in and out was restricted but not fully blocked. Israel still controlled borders, airspace, and waters, but no full blockade was in place. I think it's reasonable to assume if things had gone ahead peacefully that Israel would have withdrawn these last security measures, but sadly things went the other way.

People were hopeful (I remember, I was there!) that there would be peace going forward and someone reasonable would be elected to run Gaza, but Hamas was. And to be clear, when they were elected the Gazans knew full well that Hamas charter called for murdering Jews and that their sole political goal was annihilation of Israel through war and terror and they did actually vote for that.

Hamas didn’t just “rise out of desperation.” They published a charter in 1988 calling for the obliteration of Israel and the murder of Jews worldwide, long before the blockade or 2005 withdrawal. And they weren't elected solely because they stood up for Gazans' rights. what right do you think they offered? None! All they promised was murder.

They were elected in 2006 -one time -and haven't allowed another election since. They’ve violently crushed political rivals, used aid to build terror tunnels instead of infrastructure, and used children and civilians as shields and AFAIK until recently they have had pretty widespread support to the extent my understanding is that Abbas has held off arguing for a WB election because until recent events they were pretty certain Hamas would win a WB election and take control of all Palestinian territory.

So everything here is really just disingenuous. the evidence shows very clearly Israel only "occupies" anything to stop it's own citizens being killed. The border is controlled for security reasons, just as Egypt controls its own border with Gaza - and Egypt keeps it sealed for the same reasons Israel does: Hamas is a terror group that has attacked both.

Right now, I think China is occupying Tibet, Russia occupies Crimea, Turkey occupies Cyprus. Not out of self defence because those places are threats, but just because they want territory and control. Being intellectually honest, I do not count it as "occupation" when the goal is simply to stop a terror group from killing you.

But Hamas is certainly occupying and brutalising its own people. They’ve turned a strip of land that could have thrived into a launchpad for war, prioritising martyrdom over statehood. And even after October 7 - a massacre of civilians, rape, torture, and hostage-taking - many still excuse them as the “understandable reaction” of the oppressed through cherry picking parts of the story.

The true story as I see it is that Israel was given independence and the Arab nations were furious about this largely for reasons that relate to religious supremacy and pan-Arab nationalism. And ever since the Palestinian people have been used as pawns in the battle to undermine Israel. That means they have been denied resettlement, denied citizenship, denied a state (Egypt had 20 years to give them one!) and forced to remain eternal refugees and victims so people can keep up the effort to remove Israel from existence.

Had Egypt given the slightest shit about Palestinians they would have build a beautiful Gaza for them with self-rule and prosperity and they would have encouraged them to prosper. They didn't give two shits, and even today they watched as those kids were locked inside a warzone and refused to even let them out when Israel petitioned them for medical assistance for the wounded or sick.

As for Gaza, they have fallen prey to violent religious radicalism, which is a choice - not an inevitability. The Kurds, Tibetans, and millions of oppressed people have pursued justice without massacring civilians. Hamas chose terror, not resistance. And they did so with support from Iran, not for self-determination, but to create a radical Islamist state.

No one is trying to erase the history of Zionism or the suffering of Palestinians. But history is not a justification for terrorism, and pretending that Israel is uniquely guilty for trying to defend its people against a genocidal enemy is to apply a moral standard you wouldn't apply anywhere else.

Thankfully there’s finally someone who knows what they’re talking about on here and can express it very succinctly as well!

Bravo 👏🏻

ForgesOfEmpires · 09/07/2025 10:31

Whatsinanamehey · 09/07/2025 09:43

There were many aspects of this war that people thought were unlikely to go ahead or was just some sort of sick joke. When Trump first mentioned his plan people said it was just a spoof and wouldn't be taken seriously. When the Israelis first said they wanted to clear out northern Gaza, people said it wouldn't really happen but Netanyahu is still insisting on it and only opened aid hubs in the south and centre to push for this.

There are many things people thought would not happen but did.

If it helps, nothing has happened that I personally did not think would happen. Aside from 7 October. I was not expecting that.

ForgesOfEmpires · 09/07/2025 10:25

MixedMetals · 09/07/2025 10:19

As I said, Gaza is a warzone and people will need to live somewhere. In my view they should be moved out of Gaza for it to be reconstructed, as this is simply best for the population and in particular the children, but many would classify this logical action as "ethnic cleansing". Hopefully at least those who wish to leave will be given that option.

The issue isn't with people choosing to move to allow Gaza to be rebuilt and then returning to a lovely new shiny Gaza. The issue with people being forced to leave whether that is by literal force or by being locked up in a camp and being told its this or you leave. There is also the huge issue with the lack of trust in Israel, you would surely be a fool to believe that a country whose government openly declare their want for ethnic cleansing and whose voters support this view would allow Palestinians to return once they have left, why would they, they openly want them gone, a lot want them all dead. Not to mention the present situation in the West Bank where people are afraid to leave their homes unattended at all in case an Israeli decides to move in.

It's a lovely idea, off you go for a little bit and come back to lovely new homes but on a list of things that it is never going to happen that has to be right at the top. There is a culture within Israel of settlements and land grabbing, there is no reason to believe with the rapid expansion of violence and settlements in the West Bank that suddenly Israel have changed their mind on this.

Edited

Genuine question moving forward. If people have the choice to leave, but nobody will accept them (the current status) then what do you expect to happen to them? Given that the one place they cannot go is Israel?

ForgesOfEmpires · 09/07/2025 10:24

Jumpupjumphigh · 09/07/2025 08:11

There's one important point you're missing though, which is that Israel occupied Gaza in 1967. Hamas only became a thing in the 1990s after decades of appeal to international pressure and negotiation didn't work to end that occupation. Hamas were voted into government by the Gazans because they were the only group perceived as willing to stand up for their rights.

Noone is saying Hamas are good, or even that they're OK. But if you occupy another people's land, deny their right to self determination, destroy their livelihood and brutalize them for long enough, violent religious radicalism is ONE of the reactions that will occur.

Seriously, people make a mockery of this issue by pretending they can just lop the first hundred years or so off the history of it (from the beginnings of the Zionist movement in the 19th century) and date it from the last bad thing that some Palestinians did.

Israel are occupying a land that does not belong to them. In no other place do we just accept that as OK, or blame the inhabitants of the land for the chaos, desperation and violence arising from whatever means they can cobble together to fight against it.

You're repeating a narrative that oversimplifies history and lets Hamas off the hook for deliberate choices. Let's take this point by point:

Yes, Israel captured Gaza in 1967 - from Egypt—in a defensive war started checks notes Egypt. Egypt had occupied Gaza for almost 20 years at that time, and by the way had denied Gazans citizenship, free movement or basically any rights, they were treated really poorly actually by Egypt and keep in mind the context here that Egypt were on their side of the conflict!

Then Nasser ordered UN peacekeepers out of the Sinai Peninsula, which had been a buffer since the 1956 Suez Crisis and closed the Straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping, and Arab forces from Egypt, Syria, Jordan, and Iraq massed on Israel’s borders. If that isn't clear enough, Nasser publicly declared intentions to destroy Israel- “Our basic objective will be the destruction of Israel,” he said on May 27, 1967.

Really think that over for a minute and ask what YOUR country would do?

What Israel did was Israel launched a pre-emptive strike against Egypt's air force, destroying it on the ground. Jordan and Syria then attacked Israel, and Israel responded. Israel won that war -decisively and in just six days, during which they took control of Gaza and the Sinai Peninsula, which given what I just described is the least of what any country would do in their own defence!

A key point here is that once they did take control of the Sinai Peninsula they did not reciprocate and use it to attack Egypt - they actually just used it as a buffer zone and then handed it back in exchange for peace. So keep in mind every shred of evidence here shows Israel was acting purely in it's own defence with no aggression and their behavior. Israel is one of very few countries in history to do so: hand back land won in a defensive war in exchange for peace. It's rare because most countries keep land they’ve conquered in war, especially when the war was started by the other side.

Gaza at that time had been under Egyptian occupation with severe oppression for decades. It had no government or organised society! But what Israel did do during this "occupation" that they did not choose was allowed Gazans freedom of movement for the first time - they were allowed to visit Israel, schools were build, hospitals, UNRWA were invited in to develop infrastructure for the Gazan people and tens of thousands of Gazans were given jobs in Israel where wages were 5 - 10 times higher.

Under Egyptian control Gaza was neglected, isolated, and impoverished. After Israel took over roads, water systems, electricity, and hospitals were expanded and upgraded.The first modern hospitals, sewage systems, and reliable electricity came under Israeli civil administration.Trade and agriculture increased due to access to Israeli markets and Israeli investment. By the 1980s, Gaza's economy was growing, and unemployment was relatively low. Israel built schools and improved access to education. Infant mortality rates dropped and life expectancy increased - according to World Bank and UN figures at the time.

What Israel is criticised for was Israeli settlements in Gaza which were established after the war. By the early 2000s, there were 21 settlements in Gaza, home to about 9k Israelis, mainly concentrated in an area calong the southern coast. Though they occupied about 20% of the land, much of it was uninhabited sand dunes or farmland. However, the settlements required large military buffer zones and checkpoints because Gazans unfortunately did kill Jews, which inflamed tensions and created friction with the local Palestinian population.

Now you can look at this however you want to. From the Palestinian perspective, they represented land theft and occupation, especially as Gaza's 1.5 million Palestinians faced overcrowding and poverty. From the Israeli side, the settlements were viewed by some as a legitimate return to ancestral land or a necessary security buffer.

The goal was always stated, which was sufficient stability to be created in Gaza for it to safely govern itself and live as a peaceful neighbour to Israel in which Jews could freely live, as they did in Israel, but instead of that happening the first intifada happened.

Terrorism, extremism, and rejection of peace efforts led to closures, security measures, and decline. That increased security measures and began to reduce the freedoms Gazans had previously had. The Intifada led to the Oslo Accords and Gaza underwent significant changes. The Palestinian Authority was established and given civil and internal security control over most of Gaza, marking the first time Palestinians had self-rule in the territory. Israel partially withdrew its military from urban areas but retained control over borders, airspace, and Jewish settlements. but progress..

Then Hamas came on the scene somewhere in here, absolutely fuming that a two-state solution was being discussed and negotiated and demanded instead that Israel be annihilated and they have it all.

Israel then agreed to completely withdraw from Gaza in 2005. I have read the full withdrawal agreement and it was very fair and was done entirely in the hope that Gazans would self govern and make peace. They removed everything, every soldier and every settlement. Not one Israeli remained and Gazans were given a shot at self-governance fully. Movement in and out was restricted but not fully blocked. Israel still controlled borders, airspace, and waters, but no full blockade was in place. I think it's reasonable to assume if things had gone ahead peacefully that Israel would have withdrawn these last security measures, but sadly things went the other way.

People were hopeful (I remember, I was there!) that there would be peace going forward and someone reasonable would be elected to run Gaza, but Hamas was. And to be clear, when they were elected the Gazans knew full well that Hamas charter called for murdering Jews and that their sole political goal was annihilation of Israel through war and terror and they did actually vote for that.

Hamas didn’t just “rise out of desperation.” They published a charter in 1988 calling for the obliteration of Israel and the murder of Jews worldwide, long before the blockade or 2005 withdrawal. And they weren't elected solely because they stood up for Gazans' rights. what right do you think they offered? None! All they promised was murder.

They were elected in 2006 -one time -and haven't allowed another election since. They’ve violently crushed political rivals, used aid to build terror tunnels instead of infrastructure, and used children and civilians as shields and AFAIK until recently they have had pretty widespread support to the extent my understanding is that Abbas has held off arguing for a WB election because until recent events they were pretty certain Hamas would win a WB election and take control of all Palestinian territory.

So everything here is really just disingenuous. the evidence shows very clearly Israel only "occupies" anything to stop it's own citizens being killed. The border is controlled for security reasons, just as Egypt controls its own border with Gaza - and Egypt keeps it sealed for the same reasons Israel does: Hamas is a terror group that has attacked both.

Right now, I think China is occupying Tibet, Russia occupies Crimea, Turkey occupies Cyprus. Not out of self defence because those places are threats, but just because they want territory and control. Being intellectually honest, I do not count it as "occupation" when the goal is simply to stop a terror group from killing you.

But Hamas is certainly occupying and brutalising its own people. They’ve turned a strip of land that could have thrived into a launchpad for war, prioritising martyrdom over statehood. And even after October 7 - a massacre of civilians, rape, torture, and hostage-taking - many still excuse them as the “understandable reaction” of the oppressed through cherry picking parts of the story.

The true story as I see it is that Israel was given independence and the Arab nations were furious about this largely for reasons that relate to religious supremacy and pan-Arab nationalism. And ever since the Palestinian people have been used as pawns in the battle to undermine Israel. That means they have been denied resettlement, denied citizenship, denied a state (Egypt had 20 years to give them one!) and forced to remain eternal refugees and victims so people can keep up the effort to remove Israel from existence.

Had Egypt given the slightest shit about Palestinians they would have build a beautiful Gaza for them with self-rule and prosperity and they would have encouraged them to prosper. They didn't give two shits, and even today they watched as those kids were locked inside a warzone and refused to even let them out when Israel petitioned them for medical assistance for the wounded or sick.

As for Gaza, they have fallen prey to violent religious radicalism, which is a choice - not an inevitability. The Kurds, Tibetans, and millions of oppressed people have pursued justice without massacring civilians. Hamas chose terror, not resistance. And they did so with support from Iran, not for self-determination, but to create a radical Islamist state.

No one is trying to erase the history of Zionism or the suffering of Palestinians. But history is not a justification for terrorism, and pretending that Israel is uniquely guilty for trying to defend its people against a genocidal enemy is to apply a moral standard you wouldn't apply anywhere else.

MixedMetals · 09/07/2025 10:19

ForgesOfEmpires · 09/07/2025 09:29

My personal take on the plan for a sealed “humanitarian city,” is that the plan is extremely unlikely to go ahead. It faces strong resistance from the Israeli military who warn it would obstruct military objectives and violate international law. Key international mediators have also objected. While elements of the plan may be under discussion, the legal, logistical, and political obstacles - along with Israel’s need for international legitimacy - make its full implementation improbable. I think a lot of ideas and proposals will come forward in the coming weeks and months and people should apply a portion of scepticism to things until there is some kind of unified international statement on it.

But what is certainly true is that whatever is proposed people will be unhappy with. As I said, Gaza is a warzone and people will need to live somewhere. In my view they should be moved out of Gaza for it to be reconstructed, as this is simply best for the population and in particular the children, but many would classify this logical action as "ethnic cleansing". Hopefully at least those who wish to leave will be given that option.

It is simply not true from a human perspective that living on "your land" is the most important thing in life. Speaking from first hand experience, sometimes you can make a better life for your children by getting away from violence.

As I said, Gaza is a warzone and people will need to live somewhere. In my view they should be moved out of Gaza for it to be reconstructed, as this is simply best for the population and in particular the children, but many would classify this logical action as "ethnic cleansing". Hopefully at least those who wish to leave will be given that option.

The issue isn't with people choosing to move to allow Gaza to be rebuilt and then returning to a lovely new shiny Gaza. The issue with people being forced to leave whether that is by literal force or by being locked up in a camp and being told its this or you leave. There is also the huge issue with the lack of trust in Israel, you would surely be a fool to believe that a country whose government openly declare their want for ethnic cleansing and whose voters support this view would allow Palestinians to return once they have left, why would they, they openly want them gone, a lot want them all dead. Not to mention the present situation in the West Bank where people are afraid to leave their homes unattended at all in case an Israeli decides to move in.

It's a lovely idea, off you go for a little bit and come back to lovely new homes but on a list of things that it is never going to happen that has to be right at the top. There is a culture within Israel of settlements and land grabbing, there is no reason to believe with the rapid expansion of violence and settlements in the West Bank that suddenly Israel have changed their mind on this.

OP posts:
Twiglets1 · 09/07/2025 09:52

Whatsinanamehey · 09/07/2025 09:43

There were many aspects of this war that people thought were unlikely to go ahead or was just some sort of sick joke. When Trump first mentioned his plan people said it was just a spoof and wouldn't be taken seriously. When the Israelis first said they wanted to clear out northern Gaza, people said it wouldn't really happen but Netanyahu is still insisting on it and only opened aid hubs in the south and centre to push for this.

There are many things people thought would not happen but did.

Trump's plan for a "Gaza Riviera" seems very unlikely to happen now - if anyone develops the land it will more likely be the Egyptian plan.

Anonimummy · 09/07/2025 09:46

veiledsentiments · 09/07/2025 09:36

UNDER THE ISRAELI OCCUPATION. There you have it.

Have what? Doesn’t mention anything about being kicked out of their house by Jewish refugees back then.

There was no Israeli occupation where he was born. It’s part of Israel. It’s known as the ‘Arab capital of Israel’ so it’s doubtful Jewish refugees took over his family’s house! He was born in November 1948 so after the inception of Israel so his family must have left before he was born.

ForgesOfEmpires · 09/07/2025 09:43

Jumpupjumphigh · 09/07/2025 07:52

It's most common use that I see currently is to describe the Chinese treatment of the Uyghurs. I don't see any qualifications or apologies for using it when I read about that in a wide range of media.

That is because they actually are concentration camps.

Around two million people were rounded up, largely based on their religion and forced into a camp without due process. Conditions in the camps, according to satellite imagery, leaked documents, and first-hand survivor accounts, include forced political indoctrination, torture, rape, forced sterilisation, family separation, and hard slave labour. They are allowed no contact with the outside world not humanitarian agencies.

If and when Israel does that to Muslims, I will be happy to call it a concentration camp. Until then, what's being proposed (which isn't going to happen anyway) is nothing like this.

Whatsinanamehey · 09/07/2025 09:43

There were many aspects of this war that people thought were unlikely to go ahead or was just some sort of sick joke. When Trump first mentioned his plan people said it was just a spoof and wouldn't be taken seriously. When the Israelis first said they wanted to clear out northern Gaza, people said it wouldn't really happen but Netanyahu is still insisting on it and only opened aid hubs in the south and centre to push for this.

There are many things people thought would not happen but did.

ForgesOfEmpires · 09/07/2025 09:42

Jumpupjumphigh · 09/07/2025 08:11

There's one important point you're missing though, which is that Israel occupied Gaza in 1967. Hamas only became a thing in the 1990s after decades of appeal to international pressure and negotiation didn't work to end that occupation. Hamas were voted into government by the Gazans because they were the only group perceived as willing to stand up for their rights.

Noone is saying Hamas are good, or even that they're OK. But if you occupy another people's land, deny their right to self determination, destroy their livelihood and brutalize them for long enough, violent religious radicalism is ONE of the reactions that will occur.

Seriously, people make a mockery of this issue by pretending they can just lop the first hundred years or so off the history of it (from the beginnings of the Zionist movement in the 19th century) and date it from the last bad thing that some Palestinians did.

Israel are occupying a land that does not belong to them. In no other place do we just accept that as OK, or blame the inhabitants of the land for the chaos, desperation and violence arising from whatever means they can cobble together to fight against it.

Sorry responded to the wrong person, will respond to this in a second

Whatsinanamehey · 09/07/2025 09:41

Anonimummy · 09/07/2025 09:34

I don’t hate anyone actually in direct contrast to pro-Palestinians who chant death threats to people they’ve never met from a foreign country.

I’m interested to know why all these people GENUINELY care that Palestinians are being killed every single week though. Probably not thousands as the war has been going on for 21 months so a quick maths calculation in my head tells me that Hamas’s own figures would be much higher if that was the case - bit more hyperbole there!

Do you only GENUINELY care about Palestinians? What about the Sudanese, Ukrainians, Yemenis, Congolese?

What is so special about the Palestinians that has invoked global mass protests, mass boycotting and criminal damage, letters to MPs, attacks and murders of people in other countries, a constant stream of SM, TV and news stories, a whole industry of Palestinian flags and keffiyehs, Freedom flotillas, over 2000 threads on a parenting chat forum, and the total demonisation and condemnation of the country they committed horrific atrocities on?

Ah! I think I might know.

Edited

What is it that you know and are implying?

Anonimummy · 09/07/2025 09:38

veiledsentiments · 09/07/2025 09:29

And his daughters’ careers discredits his story how?

Well it looks like he changed his story after he got a bit more of a platform after his daughters’ success.

See my post of 9.18. That bold bit was from the same place you got your information from.

veiledsentiments · 09/07/2025 09:36

Anonimummy · 09/07/2025 09:18

He also changed his story a bit -

In 1989, Hadid stated his father left because he "did not want the family to live under the Israeli occupation."

UNDER THE ISRAELI OCCUPATION. There you have it.

Anonimummy · 09/07/2025 09:34

Whatsinanamehey · 09/07/2025 09:19

You are so blinded by your hate that you can't see past that. You can't see that many people GENUINELY care that Palestinians are being killed in their thousands every single week.

I don’t hate anyone actually in direct contrast to pro-Palestinians who chant death threats to people they’ve never met from a foreign country.

I’m interested to know why all these people GENUINELY care that Palestinians are being killed every single week though. Probably not thousands as the war has been going on for 21 months so a quick maths calculation in my head tells me that Hamas’s own figures would be much higher if that was the case - bit more hyperbole there!

Do you only GENUINELY care about Palestinians? What about the Sudanese, Ukrainians, Yemenis, Congolese?

What is so special about the Palestinians that has invoked global mass protests, mass boycotting and criminal damage, letters to MPs, attacks and murders of people in other countries, a constant stream of SM, TV and news stories, a whole industry of Palestinian flags and keffiyehs, Freedom flotillas, over 2000 threads on a parenting chat forum, and the total demonisation and condemnation of the country they committed horrific atrocities on?

Ah! I think I might know.

veiledsentiments · 09/07/2025 09:29

Anonimummy · 09/07/2025 09:13

Oh Wow. That has to be the truth then. His daughters are supermodels after all.

And his daughters’ careers discredits his story how?

ForgesOfEmpires · 09/07/2025 09:29

PaxAeterna · 08/07/2025 22:11

Anyway - I think it’s a terrible plan. And I can’t see any glimmer of hope now. Even if the rest of the international governments do start taking concrete actions. And I completely agree with you @ForgesOfEmpires that Egypt are as complicit in this as have the UK, the EU and of course the US. But even if action is actually taken now - is it too late?

Edited

My personal take on the plan for a sealed “humanitarian city,” is that the plan is extremely unlikely to go ahead. It faces strong resistance from the Israeli military who warn it would obstruct military objectives and violate international law. Key international mediators have also objected. While elements of the plan may be under discussion, the legal, logistical, and political obstacles - along with Israel’s need for international legitimacy - make its full implementation improbable. I think a lot of ideas and proposals will come forward in the coming weeks and months and people should apply a portion of scepticism to things until there is some kind of unified international statement on it.

But what is certainly true is that whatever is proposed people will be unhappy with. As I said, Gaza is a warzone and people will need to live somewhere. In my view they should be moved out of Gaza for it to be reconstructed, as this is simply best for the population and in particular the children, but many would classify this logical action as "ethnic cleansing". Hopefully at least those who wish to leave will be given that option.

It is simply not true from a human perspective that living on "your land" is the most important thing in life. Speaking from first hand experience, sometimes you can make a better life for your children by getting away from violence.

Whatsinanamehey · 09/07/2025 09:23

TryingNotToSneeze · 09/07/2025 09:12

still only approx 1.5% of the population have perished.

I can’t believe what I’ve just read. Only? Only? These are human beings, people, men, women and children. Unbelievable

This is how low things have reached unfortunately.

dairydebris · 09/07/2025 09:20

veiledsentiments · 09/07/2025 09:12

I think you are being obtuse. Here’s just ONE example.

In 2015, Hadid stated in a post on Instagram: "...[W]e became refugees to Syria and we lost our home in Safad to a Jewish family that we sheltered when they were refugees from Poland on the ship that was sailing from country to country and no one would take them... they were our guest for 2 years till they made us refugees and they kicked us out of our own home."[13]

Can you answer any of my questions? I wasn't obtuse, I was very direct.

In answer to yours, the Hadid story I believe falls into the 3rd paragraph of mine, as a result of the law passed after the 1948 Arab / Israeli war. In which case you could answer as to whether or not you believe all land added to Israel as a result of war should be returned? And all other wars too? Or is it just Israel that should return territory annexed in war?

Whatsinanamehey · 09/07/2025 09:19

Anonimummy · 09/07/2025 09:12

The only froth on me is from my cappuccino.

I stand by my comment.

No way would Hamas have held out this long if they were given the same global condemnation as the aggressor that Israel has been given as the victim. They’d have made a deal to run and hide somewhere long before now.

You are so blinded by your hate that you can't see past that. You can't see that many people GENUINELY care that Palestinians are being killed in their thousands every single week.

ForgesOfEmpires · 09/07/2025 09:18

User37482 · 08/07/2025 21:38

I remember how people in the middle east were extremely prone to conspiracy theory beliefs. It used to be really odd because you would be talking to someone who is clearly very intelligent, well informed and nuanced but mention Israel and the batshittery starts. It’s fascinating from a psychological perspective because theres a build up of hysteria and increasingly outlandish claims, it’s almost religious in it’s expression, like those American Christians who like to start speaking in tongues. I think people get a dopamine hit from it.

I don't really have time to layout how pervasive antisemitism is in the middle east. At the lowest end, I have seen first-hand the "Hamas Style" militants, willing to torture innocent people for imaginary "collaboration" with "the Jews", and at the more subtle end I have seen highly westernised and educated people who strongly advocate for human rights display a fundamental belief that self-determination applies to everyone except Jews. Recently a close friend who was highly active in feminism and had been raped herself by militants some years ago, turn her face away and roll her eyes at the suggestion of sexual violence on 7 October.

It isn't just about this being normalised (and it completely is) but the education on it isn't there. I learned properly about antisemitism and the Holocaust in my 30s when I did a degree that closely studied it and was led down a path of my own research. If you look around at the way people behave even in Britain where Jews are concerned, this is magnified many times over in the middle east. The only place I think making some progress with this is the UAE, where they seem to be educating people, albeit not all want to take it on board.

Anonimummy · 09/07/2025 09:18

veiledsentiments · 09/07/2025 09:12

I think you are being obtuse. Here’s just ONE example.

In 2015, Hadid stated in a post on Instagram: "...[W]e became refugees to Syria and we lost our home in Safad to a Jewish family that we sheltered when they were refugees from Poland on the ship that was sailing from country to country and no one would take them... they were our guest for 2 years till they made us refugees and they kicked us out of our own home."[13]

He also changed his story a bit -

In 1989, Hadid stated his father left because he "did not want the family to live under the Israeli occupation."

MixedMetals · 09/07/2025 09:16

ForgesOfEmpires · 09/07/2025 00:21

I think Israel can't quite believe their luck. Gaza in the bag. Next is the West Bank then it will turn on the Palestinians in Israel.

Let me understand this correctly. You honestly, hand on heart believe that Israelis...

  • were invaded on 7 October 2023 and have 1200+ of their citizens killed, raped or kidnapped in some of the most brutal ways.
  • have endured two years of war on six fronts with their citizens in bomb shelters, many displaced for months on end, missiles fired daily at them which resulted in deaths of their civilians
  • who have lost more than 800 of their own young people in conflict
  • who have had their citizens bodies paraded like a TV game show in front of them
  • who have endured being harassed and ostracised globally
  • who have spent well over $60 billion fighting a war they did not start

Feel lucky, because this means they can now steal Gaza which they gave away voluntarily 20 years ago?

And that they intend to harm the Palestinians in Israel, who have lived amongst them peacefully for 8 decades?

My God.

I am off sick today after a small surgery. I am fascinated by this topic as it relates to both my own homeland as well as my area of study, and I joined in for a bit of a chat.

I thought it might be an intelligent chat.

But I have to say I have heard some of the most horrifying, revolting, ridiculous tripe of my life from these forums and it's obvious some of the people here have a real problem.

I think the government feel lucky that they have been given the green light to destroy Gaza and move on to ethnic cleansing. Absolutely they do. Netanyahu never wanted the settlers to leave Gaza, he threw a big hissy fit over it at the time. Now is his big chance to clear it and the other ghouls in government like Katz and Ben Gvir are positively salivating at the idea.

OP posts:
Anonimummy · 09/07/2025 09:13

veiledsentiments · 09/07/2025 09:12

I think you are being obtuse. Here’s just ONE example.

In 2015, Hadid stated in a post on Instagram: "...[W]e became refugees to Syria and we lost our home in Safad to a Jewish family that we sheltered when they were refugees from Poland on the ship that was sailing from country to country and no one would take them... they were our guest for 2 years till they made us refugees and they kicked us out of our own home."[13]

Oh Wow. That has to be the truth then. His daughters are supermodels after all.

TryingNotToSneeze · 09/07/2025 09:12

still only approx 1.5% of the population have perished.

I can’t believe what I’ve just read. Only? Only? These are human beings, people, men, women and children. Unbelievable

Anonimummy · 09/07/2025 09:12

Whatsinanamehey · 09/07/2025 08:57

Oh give it a rest will you. Frothing at the mouth that all supporters of Palestinians support them just because they hate Jews? Do you even hear yourself?

The only froth on me is from my cappuccino.

I stand by my comment.

No way would Hamas have held out this long if they were given the same global condemnation as the aggressor that Israel has been given as the victim. They’d have made a deal to run and hide somewhere long before now.

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