Israels plan for Gazas future

Its not my narrative. I've asked you countless times but you won't answer, so all I can do is work out the answer to my questions.

Some Israelis, I am sure, are racist towards Palestinians. Of course. Others I think are tired of the constant attacks and do not trust the Palestinians. You may remember that many of those in the kibbutzim that were attacked on 7 October had worked closely with Palestinians. They used that knowledge in the attacks. Israelis are not universally brought up to hate Palestinians and celebrate their deaths in tbe way tjat such hate is institutionslised in Gaza schools or in the pay for slay system.

I’m not going to be bullied or intimidated by you @SharonEllis for not holding your narrative. But you missed out this bit, which I think is equally important:

that a lot of Israelis, in Israel harbour a deep contempt for its Palestinian neighbours. Is that not equally as Islamaphobic and racist?

Almost every building in some areas is booby trapped?

Can I ask the source of this information?

Its hard to know who this is addressed to. It can't be me because I have never portrayed Israel as 'lilly white'. What a strange idea - do you mean perfect? Israel is an extraordinary place but perfect? Why would Israel be perfect? A survivor in the face of extreme hatred and a haven for the Jewish people The only democracy in the Middle East. The only place in the ME where being gay is not punishable by death, one of the few places in the ME where women's rights to travel and other freedoms are not restricted by male guardianship laws . Constantly under threat from its neighbours. Do you realise how hard it is to maintain democratic freedoms when under attack? All countries, the UK included suspend civilian/peace time freedoms when at war. It is impossible to be perfect. And yet for some reason Israel, the only nation in the world that is expected to be perfect.

@SharonEllis . See above.

I never think terrorism is justified. However, I don’t think Israel has been the lilly white country that you wish to portray them as. Always the victim, never the aggressor. Simply not true. I think that a lot of Israelis, in Israel harbour a deep contempt for its Palestinian neighbours. Is that not equally as Islamaphobic and racist? For over 80 years it has been the same old thing. Just defeat the Palestinians, just eliminate Hamas, just destroy Iran’s nuclear capabilities. Under the command of a genocidal government I think Israel is digging itself deeper into difficulties.I think many in Israel now face the fear of security anxiety, and fear of annihilation. And therefore they believe they now have the right to do that to Palestine first.

Yeah I looked there's not .That's why everyone is "blatantly ignoring" it

Only thing I found was an article about IDF soldiers dressing Palestinians in uniforms and using them as human shields in case there was a booby trap.

Sweet dreams.

You said I don’t believe that Hamas is Israels real problem anymore, no.
This suggests a. That Hamas was a 'real problem' for Israel. We can agree on that. 7th October was a genocidal attack on a huge scale that Hamas vowed to repeat over and over again. Hamas have a history of terrorism against Israelis and stated intention to kill Jews. b. that Hamas is no longer a 'real problem'. So what changed? You said you didnt know if they had been defeated? How are they no longer a problem then?
Now, in addition you are blaming the Israeli government for future actions by antisemites against Jewish people. Surely a person that attacks a Jewish person because of the actions of the Israeli government is simply an antisemite and wholly responsible for their actions? Or do you think such terrorism is justified?

Plenty of articles online. You can google.

I’m off to bed.

I understand the Ummah stands in solidarity united with all Muslims around the world.

Haven’t seen much protesting on UK streets from
Muslims demanding we stop trading with China but plenty protesting about Israel.

Does it constitute ‘genocide’ to destroy Hamas tunnels used as rat runs to avoid drone surveillance and regroup, and move weapons and hostages?

Most of the destruction in Gaza is due to the IDF having to destroy what has been called a spiderweb of tunnels of about 350 miles under an area a quarter of the size of London. That means just about everywhere has tunnels underneath including farmland I should imagine.

As well as almost every building, including residential homes, being booby trapped in some areas.

In fact it is believed that is the pressure on Israel not to advance into Rafah allowed Hamas time to set thousands of booby traps in almost every building and explains why it was evacuated so quickly, when it was expected to take several months, because Hamas actually allowed citizens to evacuate because they’d rigged all their houses for the IDF to get blown up in.

Do you think the IDF shouldn’t destroy them and just leave them for Hamas to continue using? They should clear booby trapped buildings manually risking their soldiers and taking up time and resources while being pressured to end the war?

I really don’t get why this is blatantly ignored in discussions around the destruction in Gaza?

Almost every building in some areas is booby trapped?

Can I ask the source of this information?

Does it constitute ‘genocide’ to destroy Hamas tunnels used as rat runs to avoid drone surveillance and regroup, and move weapons and hostages?

Most of the destruction in Gaza is due to the IDF having to destroy what has been called a spiderweb of tunnels of about 350 miles under an area a quarter of the size of London. That means just about everywhere has tunnels underneath including farmland I should imagine.

As well as almost every building, including residential homes, being booby trapped in some areas.

In fact it is believed that is the pressure on Israel not to advance into Rafah allowed Hamas time to set thousands of booby traps in almost every building and explains why it was evacuated so quickly, when it was expected to take several months, because Hamas actually allowed citizens to evacuate because they’d rigged all their houses for the IDF to get blown up in.

Do you think the IDF shouldn’t destroy them and just leave them for Hamas to continue using? They should clear booby trapped buildings manually risking their soldiers and taking up time and resources while being pressured to end the war?

I really don’t get why this is blatantly ignored in discussions around the destruction in Gaza?

A lot of people try to boycott Chinese products and have been for years for various reasons, not sure why it has to be especially Muslims though. There’s been threads on here at various times about it. I do. Yulin is an issue too.

You did say it was catastrophic.
I don’t think I used data from UNWRA. That report is cited on the WB report.
92% of domestic houses are structurally uninhabitable, as per those definitions. It’s not a broken window or fence.
It doesn’t take into account whether they have access to water or electricity or amenities.

The data in the WB and UN reports only include building and civil infrastructure, the a significant proportion of the farm land is also destroyed witch itself constitutes a significant proportion of Gaza.

If 90% isn’t true, and 87% or 92% is true, Gaza is destroyed and this constitutes genocide.

I have often wondered why there are not more vocal protests from Muslims about the treatment of the Uyghurs in China. That has also been characterised as a genocide and has been going on for over 10 years.

Any boycotts set up against Chinese made products?

On the topic of Gen Z’s boycotting Israel, I did notice a few people of that era putting Israeli dates in their trolleys in Tesco the other day while I was pondering over the pomegranates and melons. Maybe I should have told them to check the underside to see where they came from? Those dates always seem to go pretty fast and they’re not on offer anymore sadly although I don’t mind paying full price.

My DD and her friends are Gen Z and are definitely pro-Israel. As are my Gen X friends and family including a few non practising Muslim ones. Just had a few over and discussed it over a few wines. I guess it depends on what circles you move in.

I don’t think anyone on here can speak for everyone.

Blaming Jews for antisemitism because of Israel’s actions is like blaming women for misogyny or Muslims for Islamophobia—it shifts responsibility from the bigot to the victim. Antisemitism isn’t “caused” by Israel.

There’s a brutal war in Ukraine, but no one is attacking Russians in the street. China, Sudan, Iran—many countries commit undisputed atrocities, yet their diasporas aren't harassed worldwide.

The truth is, Israel’s actions just give existing antisemites a convenient excuse. They don’t have to admit they hate Jews—they get to pretend it’s just about opposing Israel’s “unique evil.” It’s not outrage; it’s cover.

So just to recap: I made a minor error about the location where Hamas murdered children on October 7 - a horror that no one denies- and corrected it immediately. That was three days ago.

Meanwhile, someone else falsely claimed that 90% of Gaza’s homes have been demolished, which more than quadruples the actual number. Just a few hours ago, right here, that happened.

An honest mistake? I believe likely yes. The press coverage was misleading. But no retraction, no apology, and yet I’m the one being hounded thread to thread for ‘spreading propaganda’?

Your forensic concern for accuracy is seemingly highly selective.

You're not interested in setting the record straight- I did that nyself within moments of realising my mistake. You're interested discrediting me. And it is very bullying to target someone like that.

Blaming Jews for antisemitism because of Israel’s actions is like blaming women for misogyny or Muslims for Islamophobia—it shifts responsibility from the bigot to the victim. Antisemitism isn’t “caused” by Israel.

There’s a brutal war in Ukraine, but no one is attacking Russians in the street. China, Sudan, Iran—many countries commit undisputed atrocities, yet their diasporas aren't harassed worldwide.

The truth is, Israel’s actions just give existing antisemites a convenient excuse. They don’t have to admit they hate Jews—they get to pretend it’s just about opposing Israel’s “unique evil.” It’s not outrage; it’s cover.