Israeli soldier openly talks about how the IDF kill innocent Palestinians

In the context of war “a civilian” is defined as someone who is not party to the fighting. Your trying to conflate civilians with miliants there to justify what is happening,

it’s not an element. It’s the whole purpose of the war as far as I can see, collective punishment at best genocide at worst. The courts will eventually decide.

But I don’t think Israel will be any safer. Safety and peace doesn’t come from this destruction and trauma.

I don't know, but you might be right. After the spectacular sadism of 7 Oct, carried out by Hamas and Gazan civlian mobs, there could be an element of "FAFO" motivating the IDF to restore a sense of safety to Israel in the face of an amorphous terrorist threat and perhaps even send a message to other ME countries that want to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth.

I mean you can can tell yourself that it is because of undertrained staff and the conflict environment. Clearly people do believe that.

I don’t think there has been “just” individuals committing war crimes or even “just” some poor tactical military decisions that have led to war crimes. Me and many others will fundamentally disagree. It seems there has been a systematic attempt to destroy all the basics of life, water systems, fishing boats, farmland, homes, destruction of medical facilities and medical staff. And of course, we most obvious, the denial of aid. And all of that is purposely designed and has the goal of hurting the Palestinian population as a whole.

True; it was lazy of me to share that link. All I meant to express is that war inherently violates everything we consider civilised, and in such a dehumanising situation war crimes are inevitable. The IDF tripled its numbers in response to the atrocities of 7 October by mobilising reservists, as well as being boosted by volunteers from overseas, so there's a high proportion of undertrained people in a ferociously hostile environment, made even more confusing by the fact that Hamas combatants are indistinguishable from civilians. In such circumstances, I'd imagine "no go" zones are the only way the IDF can protect their own personnel.

please do not start with the World War Two stuff. In the wake of the horror of WW 2, legal frameworks like the Geneva conventions were expanded and developed in order to try and safeguard civilians.

If you are using WW 2 to justify Israeli actions today, you are truly reaching back into the darkness.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_war_crimes_during_World_War_II

There are many atrocities committed by Hamas caught on camera. It’s not new either, they’ve been doing it for years.
Still people would rather blame Israel for everything and refuse to unite over the inhalation of Hamas.
Death to the IDF for retaliation but no support out there for death to Hamas.
Go figure 🤷‍♀️

It’s awful but not as awful as Hamas killing its own people.
So, where have you seen Israel say this?

The largest cohort of child amputees.

This phrase will stay with me for the end of my life.

Yes, clearly the blood came from somewhere.

There was clearly a battle there. It's impossible to tell whether it's Israeli blood or Palestinian blood. It could have been part of the massacre or the battle that followed. It's grim either way.

What we do know though is that it wasn't from Hamas going into an open nursery and looking the kids inside. Firstly we'd have been told about this and secondly, the nursery wouldn't have been open.

So the claim they went into a nursery and stabbed the kids is clearly false.

Now we've looked into it together here it's patently obvious this claim should be withdrawn.

https://www.reuters.com/pictures/harrowing-images-israeli-border-towns-attacked-by-hamas-2023-10-18/

That pic is from Kibbutz Be’eri which was the hardest hit on Oct 7th.

Obviously a lot of bloodshed happened in that nursery, whomever’s it was.

I crossed with your clarification, that your ' I saw it on the internet' evidence relates to a blood-stained nursery following the massacre on October 7th.

Following that awful day, lots of horrific claims were made - the burnt babies, baby cut out of mother's stomach etc. Stories that thankfully provided false. The day was horrific enough without being embellished.

If though, there was verifiable evidence that Hamas had gone into a kindergarten and systematically knifed to death toddlers inside, then this would have been reported.

It's also very unlikely to have happened in the way you describe, given the massacre happened on not just the Sabbath day but also a holiday day. The vast majority of nurseries wouldn't have been open.

I think what you've done is show blood from a nursery, and somehow translated that into hamas going in and systematically stabbing the kids inside, even though we know they weren't there on that day.

That link says Biden said he saw pictures of terrorists beheading children. Not that there were 40 beheaded.

Maybe he did see pictures of children being beheaded.

Israel have not released all the footage they have of Oct 7th quite rightly.

They believe in dignity for the dead, request permission from family who for obvious reasons may not give it, and I imagine a lot of Hamas supporters would enjoy seeing it.

My original reference was about Anthony Blinken anyway so why are you deflecting to Joe Biden?

So you think Blinken is lying as well?

i wouldn’t have trusted Biden even before his mental decline became evident. Around 40 children were killed on Oct 7th. Did he misinterpret that? He obviously didn’t see evidence of 40 beheaded babies so that was a lie on his part.

I have wondered who spread that misinformation and if was deliberate to discredit Israel and make them look like liars and like they were overplaying what Hamas did.

I don’t think it came from the Israeli government?

You’d have thought the US Presidents staff would have fully fact checked what he was going to say before he said it wouldn’t you?

Feel free to not respond.

I find it worrying that you think it's 'concerning' and that I'm 'running PR' when I ask for evidence. I routinely query the veracity of the evidence in any claim, from either side. I don't take unsubstantiated claims on face value.

I asked about those particular claims because I had not heard these claims before, and my provisional research into it did not back them up. I'm pro truth here. Pro evidence. And yes, I will treat evidence from both sides with a similar level of scepticism. See how I didn't query the other claims, because I'm satisfied on them.

1. With the Bibas family, it's incredibly awful and cruel what happened. I'm not minimising this at all. However, it seems your claim 'Hamas kills babies with their bare hands' relates to the claim by the IDF that this is what the forensics showed. The BBC was clear that it had not been shown these forensics. You wouldn't accept unverified evidence eof IDF wrongdoing, and so I use your own standards here to say we don't have sufficient evidence, only an unverified report. It may well be true, and it's horrible however they died, but we simply don't have the evidence to make any conclusions, based on your own criteria for this.

2. suicide bombings kids. I've checked again and found NO evidence of this. During the second interfada children were used, in terms of 15-17 year olds. Some of these related to Hamas (who were in opposition at the time), others didn't. No reports over the last 20 years of this thought.

3. childcare centre - again you are letting your prejudice against Palestinians colour the evidence you are willing to accept. You provide no evidence of a specified, verified incident, but instead things you've seen 'on the internet'. Do you accept all Palestinian videos circulating in the internet as verifiable evidence? Heck you don't even consider testimony if IHF and the IDF - anonymous to us, but confirmed with reputable news sources.

If you really want to go down the route of 'I saw it on the internet' as sufficient evidence, that cuts both ways.

I've found no news story of what you suggest. If I'm wrong and this happened, please provide details. I'm not after proving you wrong here, I'm trying to establish the truth.

I believe Erin Patterson is guilty of murdering those people. I would ask for evidence of it was also claimed she did something different.
Harold Shipman was a prolific serial killer. I'd still ask for evidence of he was.accused of, say, rape.

I dislike Hamas intently. That doesn't mean we should just nod our heads and agree about every claim that comes out. Let their actions stand for themselves without embellishment. Evidence is required regardless of how much you dislike someone. That's how justice works. Not just throw extra mud on just in case.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/biden-deliver-remarks-roundtable-jewish-community-leaders-rcna119865

Biden?

I also remember Biden coming out saying he saw evidence of 40 beheaded babies.

I’d never heard about this before. The blood spattered up the walls! Horrific!

Shocking how some people don’t even hide or have any shame that they support the sub human scum that did this.

Marching in the streets shouting ‘Free Palestine’ from the river to the sea’ as if all the land should be awarded to them as reward for their atrocities.

Sick fucks, and our government has allowed this to continue from the day after this attack.

I remember Blinken describing this horrific incident and I actually cried despite having no connection to Israel:

https://www.businessinsider.com/israel-hamas-gaza-militants-ate-lunch-tortured-mutilated-young-family-2023-10

So the strategy to combat the reports from IDF soldiers where they talk about soldiers killing children for sport, shooting people in the backs of the head for not walking fast enough, breaking the limbs of a toddler and repeatedly stomping on its chest etc… is “But Hamas” “But Anti Semitism”.

I’m sorry but there is no defense for this, no script that Israel or anyone can write, no internet army big enough to whitewash these crimes. All defences are blown out the window when a country’s own soldiers are saying they’ve seen war crimes, they’ve seen children brutally murdered, they’ve witnessed the dehumanisation of the civilian population, they have seen people shot and blown up on a whim.

https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties

You don't see the execution of 15 first responders as
'IDF executes people without trial' ?

Then we live in different worlds. Enjoy yours.

In managed to find this which is one of the images I saw, please click with care as it's quite horrible

https://www.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/article-771624

Any proof of “gross exaggeration”
😂😂

ETA: no, I don't find any of it funny. The emoji is just a reponse to the emoji in the post.

And also - no opinion on what Palestinians are subjected to now? Just denial? I won't engage with denials.