Why kill Dr Marwan Sultan?

Just to clarify, my exact words were: ‘That doesn’t mean the only alternative is to literally wipe out the entire civilian population of Gaza.’ I’ve never claimed Israel has literally done so. Although their actions and patterns of behaviour strongly suggest that is what they are trying to do.

My point is entirely about international law: deliberately targeting civilians, starving children, and destroying hospitals is prohibited, and the humanitarian impact is catastrophic. None of that absolves Hamas of responsibility for attacks on 7/10, but dismissing Israel’s disproportionate response and the suffering of civilians as ‘hyperbole’ doesn’t change the facts.

Potentially 380,000 infants under five are among those killed- does that not underline the gravity of the humanitarian crisis and the need for a deal? Or are you more interested in picking fights and accusing me of being a Hamas sympathiser than having a serious discussion?

It was you who said they were literally wiping out the entire civilian population of gaza. Now you're grudgingly admitting they arent but claiming you aren't exaggerating? Its the definition of exaggeration. You are absolutely being an apologist for Hamas, absolving them of responsibility over the failure of ceasefire negotiations and wildly exaggerating what is happening.

Actually, I’m not exaggerating. Even if Israel isn’t literally killing every single civilian, the scale of what’s happening is staggering.

Bombing entire neighbourhoods, schools, hospitals, and deliberately blocking food and medical supplies has already killed tens of thousands- including potentially hundreds of thousands of children under five and is making survival nearly impossible for the rest.

International law doesn’t say civilians have to be wiped out completely for it to be illegal- systematically targeting civilians and making life impossible for a population counts.

Accusing me of being a Hamas apologist for pointing out facts is absurd.

Netanyahu has repeatedly rejected peace deals, and international law is clear: Israel must distinguish civilians from fighters. Deliberately killing hundreds of thousands of children under five cannot be justified as self-defence.

Noone on here has EVER said it was, have they?

Do you know what 'literally' actually means?

Israel is nowhere even remotely close to wiping out the 'entire civilian population'

You really should delete such a nonsensical post.
The only reason someone would post such a thing would be to try to completely drown out any sort of sensible conversation in hyperbole and misinformation. No doubt you have told us you dont support Hamas (I cant be botherd to check) but you're certainly making life easy for them

That doesn’t mean the only alternative is to literally wipe out the entire civilian population of Gaza.

Absolutely. I also think its unhelpful to frame caring about Israel in the context of the Holocaust. The Holocaust was the most extreme manifestation of jew hatred, but not the only one, before or since, and much persecution of Jews happened in the Middle East. Israel is important now, because there are many, many people, right now, today who want to destroy the Jewish people, and many more around the world who really seem quite ok with it, or at least think they are bringing it on themselves, which absolves them of doing something about it.

We don't assume "people" don't care about Israel.

Many people do - even some that post on MN with an outlook that is very pro Palestinian do still appear to care about Israeli civilians (like those of us who are pro Israel can still care about what happens to Palestinian civilians).

It's also possible though to see that some posters don't care about Israel. They are the ones that constantly make excuses for Hamas or try to stop any mention of the fact that there are 2 sides behaving aggressively in this war not just one.

Well obviously there were security failings or 7/10 wouldn't have happened.

Israel's top general resigned over it, taking responsibility for the security failures tied to Hamas's surprise attack.

Equally you could say other countries failed in some way that suffered terrorist attacks but you probably haven't said that about anywhere else as it comes across kinda unsympathetic. To blame the victims for being underprepared for the terrorist attack that happened to them. To suggest that it wouldn't have happened had they simply been more "on the ball".

I also think you are mistaken to think people don’t care about Israel. I can completely understand after the holocaust why Israel is important.

I am not sure Israel’s actions over the last 2 years will ultimately increase its safety without a clear plan for the day after. Hamas is actually giving an opportunity to consider an alternative power to itself in Gaza that Israel could work alongside, together with a ceasefire that many in Israel also have want to see happen.

The conclusion of the Israeli intelligence and military agencies are there were failings.

I have already said Hamas were culpable for the deaths of Israelis that they themselves killed. A state’s responsibility is to do what it can to prevent a terrorist attack and both the military and intelligence agencies have decided things could have been done differently.

Going forward- there needs to be an alternative to Hamas in Gaza and they are proposing a solution alongside a ceasefire that will allow that to happen.

Well said. Honestly, they expect us to believe they care about Israel now.

Don't you think Israel themselves are best placed to analyse what more could have been done/be done in future to reduce the risk of this happening again in future? Rather than people on the internet who are using the fact their citizens got raped and murdered to criticise Israel for not being more "on the ball".

Victim blaming is not a good look whether it's an individual, a group, a country or whoever has been attacked.

I am trying to focus on how best to prevent a further attack. I guess that’s why the Israeli military and intelligence agencies also wanted to see what had gone wrong and how to prevent a further one. Netanyahu doesn’t want to look at political failings at present.

Its going to require an alternative governance structure to Hamas as well- which they are giving opportunity to develop.

The US and UK rightly explored failures that led to attacks on their land and how these could have been prevented.

There is no "but" - Hamas was culpable for the deaths on 7/10.

Again, do you blame others who get attacked or only Israel?

It’s incredibly depressing thinking if this could have all been prevented @Twiglets1 given the suffering in both Israel and amongst Palestinians, and what has transpired in Gaza over the last 2 years but here is a timeline prior 7/10 from Israeli spy agency:
https://www.npr.org/2025/03/05/nx-s1-5318591/israel-shin-bet-security-failure-october-7-attack#:~:text=Daniel%20Estrin-,What%20went%20wrong?,7%20attack&text=TEL%20AVIV%2C%20Israel%20—%20Hamas%20code,consider%20it%20a%20realistic%20threat.

The only way forward is to have an alternative to Hamas and they themselves appear to have given a chance for that to be developed.

Hamas was culpable for the deaths- but 7/10 could have been prevented given the warnings Israel received. It will be interesting to see what Israel’s further look at this finds- when Netanyahu allows it.

There is going to be need for Israel to work alongside the new Palestinian government to prevent further terrorism. With independent oversight too- this will be required to prevent further attacks including the other points I mentioned above including ensuring Hamas don’t get funding.

No it's not Israel's fault that 7/10 happened and I find it a disgusting suggestion that it was their fault in some ways for not being "on the ball" enough to stop their citizens being murdered and raped.

Would you say that about anyone else getting attacked? That they should have been more "on the ball" to prevent it.

Perhaps Israeli government will be more on the ball about preventing a future 7/10, and the new Palestinian governance can also assist in prevent further attack.

Perhaps the new Palestinian government will not allow the millions of dollars to be transferred to Hamas as the Knesset allowed?

Yes very much an implication that Hamas are being the more reasonable ones here.

Hamas apologists do not use valid arguments. They are a proscribed terrorist organisation in the UK.

5-7 years of peace before Hamas can do another 7/10? No thanks.

What do you think of the response of Hamas to prior ceasefire proposals?

Its not me that ignoring things. You keep repeating that Netayahu is to blame for rejecting ceasefires, as if Hamas was being reasonable. You can't just ignore the fact that Israel will not, and should not be expected to, allow Hamas to remain armed and functioning.

Aren’t the hostages lives and a potential of longer term peace not worth taking a chance on this proposal for a ceasefire? The US thought so.

I don’t think that trying to destroy Hamas by flattening Gaza and killing tens of thousands of Palestinians, continuing to expand the settlements and not prevent killing of Palestinians in the WB by settlers, nor bombing Qatar reduces the risks towards Israel.

Hamas definitely needs to be sidelined and Palestinians need an alternative to negotiate a 2ss. There is no other alternative to longer term peace.

This is what Hamas agreed to with prior ceasefire talks:

c. "Day After" arrangements in Gaza, including:
– Immediate commencement of governance by an independent technocratic committee with full authority and responsibility.
– A long-term cessation (5 to 7 years) of mutual hostile military operations between the parties, guaranteed by the mediators (the United States, Egypt, and Qatar).

Wouldn’t this have given a viable alternative path to peace?

https://en.majalla.com/node/325875/documents-memoirs/full-text-witkoff’s-us-gaza-ceasefire-deal-plus-hamas-response