To wish those in Israel safety in these coming times

@DigitalInteractor ”That means standing with Israel to most people.”

As simple as that message is, and despite the vast, vast majority of Europeans believing that, and their governments actively and openly expressing this, the pro-Palestinian minority cannot accept it

It can only be antisemitism or radicalization driving them on.
Otherwise this forum should be alive on the wars in Sudan and the repression of women in Afghanistan.
But they are not. Not a fecking whimper. Why? Because there are no Jews involved.

So if Palestinians wish violence on innocent Israelis they deserve sympathy but if Isralies wish harm on innocent Palestinians they deserve harm in return? And you were complaining about double standards?

@DigitalInteractor ”That means standing with Israel to most people.”

As simple as that message is, and despite the vast, vast majority of Europeans believing that, and their governments actively and openly expressing this, the pro-Palestinian minority cannot accept it

It can only be antisemitism or radicalization driving them on.
Otherwise this forum should be alive on the wars in Sudan and the repression of women in Afghanistan.
But they are not. Not a fecking whimper. Why? Because there are no Jews involved.

Do you mean the REGION of Palestine? Palestine is not and never has been a country.

I think ordinary people stand with innocent civilians who want to live in peace and live their lives as most of Western civilisation does, free from living in fear from a mad Mullah regime and demented terrorist proxies who indoctrinate evil and hatred, bring war on their people (and kill them themselves), and use them as human sacrifices for a fake cause created by an ideology which will not accept a Jewish State due to centuries old religious conflict.

That means standing with Israel to most people.

Well yes, thankfully ordinary people do stand with Palestine. The real disconnect is with our politicians and much of the media, who keep pushing narratives that excuse or downplay what is happening. That is what I am referring to.

There’s a huge difference between a colonised, occupied people reacting to decades of oppression, and a nuclear-armed state systematically brutalising a population it controls. Palestinians didn’t choose this situation. Israel holds all the power. The land, the borders, the military, the economy. Trying to draw a false equivalence here just ignores that imbalance entirely.

When I said I wished for Israelis what they wish for Palestinians, I was holding up a mirror, not calling for violence, but forcing people to confront the cruelty that’s been normalised when it’s aimed at Palestinians. The only reason it feels extreme is because we’ve been conditioned to see Palestinian suffering as routine.

This whole response just feels like you’re grasping for moral outrage in my words rather than reckoning with the reality I was pointing to.

There’s a huge difference between a colonised, occupied people reacting to decades of oppression, and a nuclear-armed state systematically brutalising a population it controls. Palestinians didn’t choose this situation. Israel holds all the power. The land, the borders, the military, the economy. Trying to draw a false equivalence here just ignores that imbalance entirely.

When I said I wished for Israelis what they wish for Palestinians, I was holding up a mirror, not calling for violence, but forcing people to confront the cruelty that’s been normalised when it’s aimed at Palestinians. The only reason it feels extreme is because we’ve been conditioned to see Palestinian suffering as routine.

This whole response just feels like you’re grasping for moral outrage in my words rather than reckoning with the reality I was pointing to.

There’s a huge difference between a colonised, occupied people reacting to decades of oppression, and a nuclear-armed state systematically brutalising a population it controls. Palestinians didn’t choose this situation. Israel holds all the power. The land, the borders, the military, the economy. Trying to draw a false equivalence here just ignores that imbalance entirely.

When I said I wished for Israelis what they wish for Palestinians, I was holding up a mirror, not calling for violence, but forcing people to confront the cruelty that’s been normalised when it’s aimed at Palestinians. The only reason it feels extreme is because we’ve been conditioned to see Palestinian suffering as routine.

This whole response just feels like you’re grasping for moral outrage in my words rather than reckoning with the reality I was pointing to.

And do you also wish for Palestinians what they have wished for Israelis? Would that also be an acceptable thing to say?

And do you also wish for Palestinians what they have wished for Israelis? Would that also be an acceptable thing to say?

It’s hard to watch the outrage over Israeli civilians being bombed when there has been so little sympathy shown for Palestinians, who have been bombed, starved, and ethnically cleansed for decades. The mainstream media rushes to show Israeli homes in ruins, interviews with traumatised citizens, and the human cost of attacks. Yet it rarely offers the same visibility to Palestinian suffering.

The suffering of Israelis is real. But so is the suffering of Palestinians, and it has been far more widespread and long lasting. The selective empathy by both the media and our politicians shows a stark hypocrisy.

I wish for Israelis only what they have wished for Palestinians. Nothing more, nothing less. And that is the heart of the issue. Because if Palestinians were treated with the same humanity and dignity that Israelis demand for themselves, we would not be in this situation.

It is bizarre because it is demonstrably untrue. Not to mention the huge number of threads on MN.

I’m well aware of the coverage and the protests. I’ve seen the marches, the TikToks, and the statements of support. But acknowledging that some coverage and activism is sympathetic to Palestinians doesn’t mean there isn’t also an overwhelming amount of dehumanisation and double standards, especially when it comes to how Palestinian lives are valued in mainstream political and media discourse. Pointing that out isn’t “bizarre” it’s calling attention to an imbalance that very much exists.

Im guessing you dont actually watch the news or follpw social media. Night after night there is sympathetic coversge of the Palestinians. How have yoi missed the marches and demonstrations? The social media posts tik toks eyc. I mean this is a completely bizarre post.

It’s hard to watch the outrage over Israeli civilians being bombed when there has been so little sympathy shown for Palestinians, who have been bombed, starved, and ethnically cleansed for decades. The mainstream media rushes to show Israeli homes in ruins, interviews with traumatised citizens, and the human cost of attacks. Yet it rarely offers the same visibility to Palestinian suffering.

The suffering of Israelis is real. But so is the suffering of Palestinians, and it has been far more widespread and long lasting. The selective empathy by both the media and our politicians shows a stark hypocrisy.

I wish for Israelis only what they have wished for Palestinians. Nothing more, nothing less. And that is the heart of the issue. Because if Palestinians were treated with the same humanity and dignity that Israelis demand for themselves, we would not be in this situation.

It's a good job Iran aren't even trying make nuclear weapons then isn't it?

I'm not sure why our attention isn't on places that are actually 'totally fucked' like Gaza which has had the equivalent of 6 Hiroshimas dropped on it rather than something that isn't even being planned to happen? Why are we wasting time talking about pretend nukes when there is a country who has declared their wish to ethnically cleanse somewhere, is actually doing it and people are calling the man who is doing it a hero? 100 kids a day every day for over 600 days dead or injured and our attention is on the made up world of 'if Israel got nuked'.

Of course, martyrs are positively welcomed and encouraged by these fanatics. I don’t understand why people still don’t get this.

See Hamas!

Annihilating Israel, which has a much smaller landmass than Iran and would be totally fucked by a nuclear weapon, uninhabitable for years, would be a cause for celebration in much of the Middle East, and the West, sadly as evidenced by the reaction to Oct 7th.

@mouthpipette ”Of course Israel would not be at risk if Iran had nuclear weapons. Firing on Israel would guarantee retaliation and the total destruction of Iran. The Iranians know that, they just want to join the nuclear club.”

Pretty sure the Islamist extremists running Iran would be safe under the mountains when the attack is initiated, and consider the extermination of Israel a price worth paying.

Nicely written up by a think tank years ago, including plans to use Israel as a proxy to start the conflict and take most of the blame leaving America to lie that they're uninvolved.

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/which-path-to-persia-options-for-a-new-american-strategy-toward-iran/

"The US plan for war with Iran always included options to have Israel strike Iran on Washington's behalf with fake talks used to provide the US plausible deniability.

This is spelled out in detail in policy papers including Brookings' "Which Path to Persia?" report from 2009.

If you're not reading the policy papers you are just guessing at best, at worst helping the US get away with a war it itself engineered and enabled Israel to fight on its behalf and hoped to pin culpability solely on Israel for.

https://x.com/BrianJBerletic/status/1914690246807306642

p.s Chapter 5, "Leave it to Bibi: Allowing or Encouraging an Israeli Military Strike" starting on page 89 seems to be what the US is doing now.

Of course Israel would not be at risk if Iran had nuclear weapons. Firing on Israel would guarantee retaliation and the total destruction of Iran. The Iranians know that, they just want to join the nuclear club.
Whilst it's undesirable that there is yet another nuclear power in the world, Israel would be under no greater danger.
Iran trying to obtain nuclear warheads is simply being used as an excuse to bring down Iran, an Idea that has been in the mind of Israel and the US for the past 15 years. It's all part of the confected paranoia that there is an existential threat to Israel and that the nation is on the verge of being driven into the sea and therefore it is free to use whatever force it wants to counter this.

Part of Netanyahu's obscene aggression, in response to the Hamas barbarity, is his testing of the waters, to see just how far Israel can go before the rest of the world says "stop" .
To date, the deaths of tens of thousands and the devastation of a state has led to little more that a " We'd rather you didn't" from most of the western world. Oh yes, interspersed with.... "You have the right to defend yourself".

Yet another of the world's conflict where morality is subsumed by vested interests.