People on the Madleen to be deported, awaiting court.

So much of the mess in the Middle East is rooted in the aftermath of Western imperialism. After WWI and the fall of the Ottoman Empire, Britain and France carved up the region with zero regard for the people living there drawing borders that shoved rival groups together and split others apart.

Then there’s Iran in 1953, when the UK and US toppled the country’s first democratically elected leader over oil. Skip ahead to the Iraq War: dodgy dossiers, no WMD just chaos and a power vacuum that fuelled extremisma and 100s of thosuands dead. Don’t even get me started on the Suez Crisis an embarrassing imperial throwback where an independent Egyot wanted control of it's prize assett .

And while we’re at it, let’s not forget Oman, where Britain ran a secret war for years to prop up a compliant regime. It’s been coups, cover-ups, and control for oil and influence, and we’re all still dealing with the consequences and the poisoned fruit of the trees we planted back then. You can be as despotic as you like so long as you don’t threaten Western interests and accept US hegemony; otherwise, expect us to try to destroy you and install a pliant puppet regime or be branded part of the ‘axis of evil.’

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23762970

Meanwhile, missile(s) launched at Israel overnight from Yemam.

This is what I was replying to as well you know. What I said was factual in relation to this.

I'm sure you are right and the Houthis are all sat around their phones on mumsnet whooping with glee 🙄

Again with the terrorist supporting nonsense. If you don't ignore everything Israel does then you support terrorism despite the fact that the Israeli government themselves support terrorism.

Do all of the people who support Israel ever ask themselves if that means they are supporting terrorist supporters so perhaps that makes them terrorist supporters? Or is it like the Israeli government only certain types of terrorism are a problem?

I shouldn't really post on here. It's so easy to be misunderstood, and people seem to like to catch you out for some reason? It doesn't achieve anything and I just find it all very upsetting 😔

@SharonEllis also (sorry, I've been triggered) to turn it round, it could be said that comparing 77 years of oppression the Palestinians have suffered (and terrible atrocities were committed during the Nakba) feeds into a narrative that the current genocide is legitimate self-defence. I wouldn't accuse you of that though.
Oct 7th wasn't legitimate resistance. Israel's genocide of Gazans now is not legitimate self-defence. Genocide is genocide. Those supporting the Israeli government now are on completely the wrong side of history.

I'm not sure why people can't respond to posts without snarky insinuations of terrorist support.

Being factual and saying that Israel attacked Yemen and the Houthis fired a missile back isn't showing admiration for them. It's just stating what is happening, both Israel and the Houthis are attacking each other.

You can make your point without accusing people of crimes which supporting a terrorist organisation is. I've been very clear that I think all sides should stick to the law. To be even clearer I condemn Hamas, the Houthis, Hezbollah and the Israeli government. All of them have broken International law and caused untold pain and suffering for innocent people.

@SharonEllis sorry but your last comment suggesting comparing Oct 7th feeds a narrative it's legitimate resistance, is wrong, and actually very hurtful. I'm a pacifist. I oppose all violence. I don't think I could have been clearer that I condemn October 7th. I was and am totally and utterly horrified by it.
I'm also totally and utterly horrified by atrocities committed by illegal settlers, the IDF and ultimately the Israeli government.
I'm a Northern Irish protestant. I know how awful it is when people try to justify terrorism. There's never a justification. Doesn't mean the British army at that time didn't do terrible things that also had no justification.
I condemn all violence.

Why are you sure they don't? There is ample evidence that there were Hamas and Hezbollah apologists on that boat. Please look into it, the evidence is widely available. The events of 7 October cannot be compared and to try and suggest they can feeds into the narrative of 7 October being legitimate resistance. You say you dont want to compare, and yet that is what you're doing

Well, as explained, on an individual level I feel equally sorry for all innocent victims caught up in the situation.
But, some of the things the illegal settlers have been doing are utterly horrifying, and over a sustained period, and very similar acts of violence against individuals as happened on October 7th. Really terrible things. What happened on October 7th was horrific, and I think the fact it happened in one day made it especially notable for people. But Palestinians have been suffering horror for 77 years.
I don't actually like to debate who's suffered more, because it's all awful.
My point earlier was that showing Greta Thunberg and co a video of October 7th was unreasonable, as the genocide is unjustified no matter how awful October 7th was. So I don't know why the Israeli authorities were trying to show it to them? I definitely wouldn't want to watch it. I know unbelievably awful things happened that day, and my imagination is too vivid as it is. It's offensive to suggest that those bringing food to innocent Gazan children should watch something so horrible, as it suggests they condone Hamas' actions. Which I'm sure they don't.

If you are committing a crime in international waters then you can be arrested and detained from international waters. Trying to break a legal blockade is a crime. Asking if people would be supportive of the Houthis if they dragged people off a ship in international waters and detained them in Yemen is irrelevant because the Houthis are not a government and the people they have taken captive in that scenario are not alleged to have committed any crime.

As for describing the Houthis firing missiles as 'tit-for-tat,' the Houthis have reintroduced slavery in Yemen; I'm not sure why some people seem to have a sneaking admiration for them or their fight against a liberal democracy.

And there we go again. I completely condemn the occupation of the West Bank but it is not comparable to 7 October. Why do people think you can just say this sort of stuff?

We don't know the details yet. But, I don't know why Israel was trying to force the crew of The Madleen to watch a film about October 7th. Because no matter how completely horrific the events of October 7th were (and they absolutely were, and I condemn them totally) it doesn't justify starving an entire civilian population - innocent people who had nothing to do with October 7th.
The illegal west bank settlers have been inflicting 7th Oct style horrors on the Palestinians for years (I've heard eye witness accounts so horrific I couldn't bear to write them down) but how many hardcore Zionists from outside the region would want to watch a video of those things?
I'm just very disappointed in the human race generally at this point. We're a mad species! We could make a choice to love and forgive, and the world could be such a wonderful place. It's all very sad, for all innocent Israelis and Palestinians who've suffered 😢

And you want to accuse me of having a lack of knowledge? Where did I say I was talking about the Madleen? With your breadth of knowledge I'm sure you are more than aware of Israels killings or 'summary executions' as the UN described them.

I didn't realise that there is some rule here where even when you say think they should all stay within the law you also have to 'condemn' them all too. Does that only go for me or do you have to 'condemn' them all too?

I'm not very impressed with Thunberg describing the film she refused to watch as "propaganda".

It would be comical, if they weren’t serious.

They are so well versed in international law that they really should consider a career as human rights lawyers, if terrorism doesn’t work out for them.

And, for the record: I think both are wrong - just also: yes, still wrong when Israel does it.

Not the Madleen ... but how about the Mavi Marmara? Yeah, okay, "only Turks", I guess, so who cares?

How about the WCK employees (some of whom British)? How about British photo journalist and activist Tom Hurndall (whose mum demands justice for him still)? Britidh cameraman James Miller? British UN employee Iain Hook? Or - if we count "cultural proximity" ... Irish activist Caoimhe Butterly who was shot (but survived) in the same incident?

Americans Rachel Corrie, Aysenur Eygi?

And that is not even counting anyone who was also a "dash-Palestinian".

Israel has no problem offing internationals.

And if we want to talk about boarding ships and killing people then there is something else the Houthis and Israel have in common.

"There's a lot of double standards going on in this conflict."

Well, quite!

For example, imagine the outcry if Palestinians - let us say the PA (which is considered the legitimate representation of Palestinians by most Western countries) sent its security forces into Netanya to arrest anyone they suspected of being in the IDF. And then held them for years, sometimes convicted by Palestinian kangaroo courts with 99% conviction rates and sometimes without any due process at all.

Imagine Palestinians decided that US officials were not allowed to travel to meet with their Israeli counterparts and had the power to just impose this.

Imagine Palestinians bombed a school in Haifa "because there was an IDF in there [no conclusive proof offered]".

Imagine you could not drive from Ashdod to Tel Aviv without going through several checkpoints, all of whom manned by Palestinians.

We are supposed to pretend that all of this is legitimate because Israel is a state that all Western countries recognise - and because it codifies its occupation and its abuses into law. So anything it does is obviously legal.

But slavery was legal, too. Apartheid was legal, too. The disenfranchisement of women or people without property was legal, slavery was legal, Jim Crow was legal, race laws in Nazi Germany were legal, ...

That does not make any of it actually right!

I'm not cool with any of it. Im not the one that has been supportive of ships being boarded and seized in international waters with unarmed civillians being dragged against their will to a foreign country , that's you that is in support of that remember. Personally I think they should all abide by the law, no exceptions not even for war mongering, terrorist supporting democratically elected governments.

Well said.

I don't see your point here. Israel attacked a Yemen port yesterday, the Houthis fired a missile. It's tit for tat. It's not like Israel have been minding their own business when shock horror a missile was fired.

And yes it was bad when the Houthis were the ones intercepting boats in international waters but when Israel does it for some reason some people are cool with it. Imagine the shit fit people would have if the Houthis dragged Israelis from international water back to Yemen. Imagine the shit fit people would have if food and medicine was being stopped from entering Israel. There's a lot of double standards going on in this conflict.